XS650 Electric Start System

Did the charging system work before the slice and dice?
Did you wire up the stator, brushes and reg/rec like in this diagram?
Pay close attention to the box in the lower right corner, this is the 80 up combo reg/rec.
The brown from ther brush has to connect to power after the switch. The brown from the reg/rec has to hook to power after the switch. The black wire to ground, red to battery through the 20 amp fuse and the switch. Three whites to three whites.
What does the rotor ohm out at? What does the stator ohm out at?
Leo
 

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So, I tried to start my xs650 and got nothing. So I got a battery and now she has plenty of juice. Took the starter out and it spins just fine when voltage is applied. When I hit the button, it kind of engages but not all the time. Whinging sound and then when it does engage...it fires right up. So, for the time being I tried to use the kick start and busted my leg all up, pulled the cover off and the kick start gear only engages about 1/4 of an inch. Sometimes it also doesnt engage and when you kick it spins freely and you bust your ass. So, then I read on the forums that the starter bendix gear was probably worn so I replaced that while I had the cover off. Same problem. Can this be fixed? Help please!
I posted the video of me starting it to you tube:
 
On the electric starter the starter spins a set of gears that spin a shaft. The shadft spins a small gear that tuirns a large gear. As this large gear turns it turns another large gear. This gear has the wishbone spring on it. The spring holds this gear from turning. This makes the gear slide on the curved splines on the first gear. This slides the gear in an engages the crank. Once the gear is fully engaged the gear stops sliding and starts turning. As it turns it turns the engine over.
The wishbone spring needs at to be tight enough to hold the gear from turning until it engages the crank.
When you have the gear in your hand it should take at least 5 lbs of force applied to the spring to turn it on the gear.
I use a fish weighing scale to measure this force, hook it to the spring, hold the gear pull the scale, read the lbs it takes to move the spring.
You can also use a gallon jug with 5 pints of water in it. A pint of water weighs 1 lb. So 5 pints weighs 5 lbs. Hook it to the spring and turn the gear. It should move the jug.
A few more lbs won't hurt. A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs.
The new gear set you bought may have a spring thats not tight enough. Easy to fix, remove the spring and squeeze it together a bit on the loop part.
Once you get the lbs of force right you can put the gear set back in and try to start it. You can do this without putting the clutch and side cover on. Just don't run the engine with out oil. Just test the starter action.
If it works then put it all back together, If not pull the gear set and squeeze the spring some more. Keep trying until it works.
On your kick start it sounds like the return spring preload isn't right. As you install the kick start shadt into the case you get the springs hooked on the places they hook too. Then as you push it in you need to turn the sgaft counter clockwise about 1/2 turn and it will slide right in. After that it should work right. The procedure is in the repair manual.
Leo
 
Well, I pulled off the cover and pinched the clip like you said and i think that will help. What I did notice is that the outer gear that it couples to is missing the retaining hardware. Ie. the last 4 outer parts if you look at the diagram. Anynody know where I can purchase them? I pulled off the cick start and I am trying to figure out how to properly put it back on. I will read the kick starter page and see what I can figure out. Update to come when I figure it out.

Thanks for the help so far.
 
Okay so other than missing parts I thing the electric start should work. I held a hammer on the gear so it doesnt move and hit the button, no more wierd noise. So the problem was missing hardware. Now I jsut need to find my missing parts. I removed the kickstart and now I have no idea how to get it back in. Read the thread about it and still can't get it right. Lots of missing info. 1. the half moon stop on the engine side of the shaft. Should that be up down left right when installing. Where should the clip and spring be to this and to each other. 2. Should the gear be out or engaged when putting the clip in the slot. 3. So you slide the clip in the slot or trun the gear to get it lined up. Too amny variables. Tried doing it a number of ways. I can get the gear to move and engage better than before but then it wont turn? If somebody could post some pictures step by half step I could use the help. I am very mechanically inclined and could normally figure it out but have had no luck so far.
 
hi guys maybe im off topic but i see ya took some stuff apart :) not with my luck ove here. i was wondering guys, to who took engine apart, and replaced some stuff. i doooo i doo wanna clean it up and replace some stuff. ill put my soul, everything into this bike. first bike im trying to fix up. learning as i go. here is the question, when ya take the engine off and replace the head seals and clean the cylynders, does the compression change? is it lots of hassle? do i need some pro equipment? cuz a friend of mine said that, if i take it apart, and unscrew bolts off it will be hassle to put everything back. how true is that?
 
Reassembly is always more involved than teardown. It's also an opportunity to lap in valves. Maybe get/do that mild porting job. Do a compression check and see if you need to rebore/new pistons. New rings and a hone a must. 256 or shell cam? Since the pipes are off, get that 2-1 or Commando set up. You get the idea..
 
Hello all, I've been creeping this forum for a few months and found many helpfull hints and thank you XSLeo for the explanation of what happend when you turn the key.. I have been building a 1980 XS650 Bratstyle since FEB and have come to the dreaded wiring. My wife will be riding it so I am keeping the stock harness and handlebar switches, I have changed out the gauges, headlight and taillight and still have to find signal lights I like. To my question with many hours I have got most everything working except the starter button. (it worked before I tore the bike appart) I have to use the kick start to turn it over to get the trigger to turn on the gauges and headlight. It runs if I kick start it and if I ground out the blue and white wire up at the plug near the handlebars the starter works. Is there a ground in the switch behind the button or how else does the start button ground?:banghead:
 
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The start button grounds to the handle bars. Because they are rubber mounted the handle bars in turn must be grounded. Some years have a ground wire in LH switch housing other years used a ground wire attached under the riser bolt beneath the top triple clamp. the ground and headlight ground should run back to the frame or battery not just to the fork assembly.
 
if I recall it grounds through the control. There a little metal piece inside the control that had teeth and grounds to the bars. I detest this so i got rid of the stock controls on mine. Still need to put it all back together but it worked before I stripped everything down for paint. Moved my starter button back below the seat
 
Thanks guys for the insight, I'll check under the triple tree for a place or in the switch as I have replaced the bars and painted the triple tree.. Another issue is when i hook up the stock signal lights, use the signal switch they come on yet do not flash and the indicator light on my new gauges only comes on when I signal right. Or when I reverse the wires at the connector up front the indicator light only comes on when i signal left.:shrug: I guess again with a ground problem??? Does the reed switch have anything to do with this?
 
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To operate the flasher I think you have to have a fully charged battery. As far as which signal blinks etc when I put mine back together once I had three blinking at once. Check your wiring connections again as what I thought was a black ground was dark green!
If you don't know, the reed switch is the canceller. Experienced members told me to remove it as they are unreliable. Better to not have it at all than to depend on something unreliable and have it cause an accident.
If you don't have a wiring diagram there is one in the tech links at the top of the page.
 
Thankx Pumps, I've got lots to work on this weekend. If I remove the reed switch do I just cap off the green and white wire and ground the black wire to the frame?
 
Thankx Pumps, I've got lots to work on this weekend. If I remove the reed switch do I just cap off the green and white wire and ground the black wire to the frame?

No need to touch the reed switch. Just unplug the self cancelling unit, that is next to the flasher relay, under the fuel tank. Its a 6 pin plug...........unplug it and leave it unplugged. The self cancelling unit is unreliable, and a real safety hazard.................much safer to do your own cancelling.

The flasher relay will not flash with the engine off. The 12.5 volts does not provide enough current to operate the relay. With the engine running at idle, you should have about 13.3 to 13.5 volts, which will give enough current flow to make the flasher relay work properly.

Make sure you have the correct #1156 bulbs, and also check that the bulb sockets are clean, free of corrosion/rust etc.
 
Thank You retiredgentalman, I fired it up before work today and tried to get the signal lights going but same thing just stays on, no flash. I will try unplugging the canceller and work back for the ground. gggGary I grounded out the bars and Ta Da your right the starter is working perfect. Cheers! to you all this thread rocks!
 
The stock flasher only works with the stock size bulbs. Stock bulbs are 27 watt. The stock flasher needs two 27 watt plus a three watt indicator to get it to flash. If your new turns are not 27 watt bulbs, then you need a new flasher.
If you run LED turns then you need a flasher that can flash LED's. I like the LF1-S-Flat from www.superbrightleds.com It will flash from just one led bulb up to 150 watts of bulbs. $8.95.
On your turn indicater in your new gauges, it is probably a single led light.
To get it to work you need two diodes to hook between the left and right sides of the turns to the positve wire to the led and ground the negitive side.
If you look around a bit there are diagrams explaining it on here.
Leo
 
Good morning XSLeo, Thankx for the break-down I will look for some LED turn signals I like, get the flasher and diodes needed and let you know how I fair. Are the diodes from a Source store or Radio Shack? And can the signals be a three wire or do they have to be a two wire?
Cheers!
 
Most signals the body grounds with one or two hot wires. Some with a plastic body need a seperate ground so they may have two or three wires.
Most of the lights that can be used as turn signals have just one element in them so it needs a hot and a ground. Some may have two elements and have two hots and a ground. All I can say for sure is to get the ones you like and when they arrive you can figure it out from there.
Even if it only has one element you can use it as a running light and turn in several ways. One way is to hook a resister inline with the element as a running light, then the turns bypass the resister/
The resister lights the light at partial brightness, the turns hook in after the esister to give full bright ness as they flash.
Another way is a relay on the ground side that hooks to the flasher. The light is full bright, as the turns flash the relay breaks the ground so the bulb goes out then back on.
I shop Radio Shack for many electrical parts. For what you need the 4001 diodes should work fine.
Leo
 
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