Contemplating buying an XS 650. Would appreciate some feedback!

vtuck2

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Hey guys,

I haven't been on a motorcycle in about 25 years.

Recently, I read an online article about inexpensive vintage motorcycles. The XS 650 was on the list.

I was instantly struck by how much it reminded me of the favorite motorcycle I ever owned - a 1966 Triumph Bonneville. I would describe my relationship with that Bonneville as 75% love and 25% hate. But that was then and I was 17. Now I'm 65. Today, it would probably be 75% hate and 25% love.

Nevertheless, nothing I owned subsequent to that first Bonnevile thrilled me like it did. Perhaps it was just the dulling of my senses as I grew older.

But still... I have a feeling that an XS 650 might offer all the positives and none of the negatives. While researching this I ran across this forum so decided to join.

In the dead of winter 1966, no doubt before many of you were born, I rode the Triumph from Houston to Mexico City and back. In the dead of winter 1969, I rode it from California home to Texas after having it shipped out there.

In the western deserts in the summer, and especially in the winter, the temperature plummets as soon as the sun goes down. On the trip home from California, as soon as the sun got low, I would ride a mile or so off into the desert and camp out for the night. The Triumph was agile enough and light enough to do that.

Those experiences are seared into my brain, heart, and soul. So, I recently decided, "why not do it again?"

That's the good part. The bad part is:

The Triumph vibrated and leaked something horrible. The vibration destroyed the stainless steel fenders. It destroyed the license plate. The thing would literally fall apart out from under me. At the end of a 500 mile day I always felt like I'd spent 8 hours on a vibrating torture rack.

I understand that the reason for the terrible vibration was the result of the Triumph 650 engine's crankshaft being supported by mains journals only at the ends and not at the center.

Conversely, it is my UNDERSTANDING, and I hope somebody here will confirm or deny this, that the Japanese motorcycles had a third mains journal in the center.

Is that so?

Finally, and generally, I'm hoping to get some good advice about the XS 650s - such as (but not limited to) what the best years might be; what I might have to pay for one; what "high" and "low" mileage would be considered to be. On a Triumph motorcycle miles were like "dog years". By the time my Triumph got 20K miles on it, it was slap dab worn out. And I seem to recall that was after the first rebuild.

I guess that's a good enough introduction for now. My wife and I both are serious metal heads. We have a small home machine and welding shop that rivals some commercial shops. My wife is a trained locksmith, trained machinist, and trained welder and welding instructor. We have the equipment - if not necessarily the experience - to make virtually any possible repair.

Sorry for the running diatribe. But I will be very happy to get your running diatribes back. Tell me everything you think I need to know!!!

Sincerely,

Vernon
 
I also had a Bonnie. It was a 67'. There are similarities. I like my xs650 better. I put the 8-pack clutch with hydraulic actuator. It was a good addition. I also have Mikuni 34 VM carbs that wake up the bike. My bike is a 1978 built with British flair. Good luck with your purchase.

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I also had a Bonnie. It was a 67'. There are similarities. I like my xs650 better. I put the 8-pack clutch with hydraulic actuator. It was a good addition. I also have Mikuni 34 VM carbs that wake up the bike. My bike is a 1978 built with British flair. Good luck with your purchase.

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Glad to hear I wasn't just imagining it!

How long have you had your '78?

V
 
Welcome to the forum, vtuck2. You'll find many 60-*ums* here.

One thing to consider when dusting-off old memories is the bike weight.

Your Bonnie weighed around 380-385 lbs back then. The first XS's were around 400-410 lbs.
In 1972, with the XS2, they started getting heavier from the electric start and other gadgets, up to 465 lbs.

Here's a couple of good XS's in the Dallas Texas area:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/4768839278.html

http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/mcy/4744503991.html

Howdy TwoMany!

I seem to recall that the owner's documention mentioned a "curb weight" of 396 pounds so your figures sound about right.

It may be that an older one in original condition will be beyond my budget. It would be hard for me to justify spending even $3000 for one. I could only get excited about it if it's in original condition.

I appreciate your warm welcome and your feedback.

For more about us:

www.vernontucktranslations.com
www.LaCasitaIronworks.com
 
Never rode a vintage triumph, But I can attest to my original XS650 hardtail being a vibro-matic. Had motor mount bolts depart on runs, gas tank mounts crack and break off. Once a fuel petcock nozzle popped out spraying gas in my lap one fateful summer day. Pores were open and my junk felt like it was on fire, wound up running through a trailer park looking for a garden hose for relief...

Its funny to talk about it now, but my groin was red and irritated for a few days and I was less than amused at the time.

That being said all of the above was with a hack job hard tailed xs with a worn out clapped out engine. That same engine when we tore it down and saw how ovaled the bores were we couldn't believe it ran at all. So as long as you get one in reasonable shape it should be more than reliable to the mechanically inclined, and a soft tail, and stock tank with rubber mounts should help with many of the issues I had.

Get one. despite my issues I was nostalgic enough about them to be motivated to build another one in a hard tail, I'm sure you'll love it.
 
Never rode a vintage triumph, But I can attest to my original XS650 hardtail being a vibro-matic. Had motor mount bolts depart on runs, gas tank mounts crack and break off. Once a fuel petcock nozzle popped out spraying gas in my lap one fateful summer day. Pores were open and my junk felt like it was on fire, wound up running through a trailer park looking for a garden hose for relief...

Its funny to talk about it now, but my groin was red and irritated for a few days and I was less than amused at the time.

That being said all of the above was with a hack job hard tailed xs with a worn out clapped out engine. That same engine when we tore it down and saw how ovaled the bores were we couldn't believe it ran at all. So as long as you get one in reasonable shape it should be more than reliable to the mechanically inclined, and a soft tail, and stock tank with rubber mounts should help with many of the issues I had.

Get one. despite my issues I was nostalgic enough about them to be motivated to build another one in a hard tail, I'm sure you'll love it.

It's beginning like the real issue will be finding one in original condition at an affordable price. The same thing happened decades ago. It became impossible to find a stock Triumph - even back when they were relatively common and cheap.

V
 
Look through 650skull's excellent model guide stickied at the top of the garage forum. Note what years and models fit your "image of what a bike should look like". Then look through the "lets see the XS's" thread, the old 650 contests and the calender threads. IMHO you should just give up now and understand; you will have more than one XS, a stocker and one that you build "your way". You have a complete machine and welding shop the cost of a couple of XS's is nothing compared to that investment. A wife that can work alongside you building up a personalized ride is priceless. Welcome in, the water's warm, you'll love it here.

Stock is nice but like everything 30-40 years old there are some improvements to be made that are pretty much gotta do's if you are going to ride more than "around the neighborhood". Especially on the older "classic looking" XS650's. Resto mod is a very popular XS genre.
 
LOL yep. Once you get one and figure them out they're like magnets to one another.

I have one working frame, and 4 engines. Working on getting two untitled stockers out of someones basement for the low low price of getting them out of there...

they have had a boom in popularity that drove prices up somewhat from where they were, but its still not bad. In fact the aftermarket that rose up to support the boom is genuinely a blessing. The xs650 community has come a long way in the last 10 years.
 
Here's another one worth a look:

http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/4751891292.html

These are regarded as robust/bulletproof engines. The crank runs on 4 main bearings, 3-roller, 1-ball. The overhead cam runs on 4 ball bearings. Being a roller/ball type engine, lubrication is more about 'flow' than pressure.
 

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They are still paint shakers, never ridden a trump to compare though. Good state of tune really helps keep vibes down. I have also lost motor mount bolts.

I love my close to stock 74. Rarity to see an unfuckered one.
 
A picture is worth about 1000 words, so have a look at my 1978 Special.

I bought this bike locally and have been riding it for 8 seasons now. I don't know where these tales of vibration come from, but my bike runs with minimal vibration. Definitely not smooth like a 4 cylinder bike, but just enough vibes to let you know its a real motorcycle.

My signature line tells the story of additions to my bike. With a few modern up-grades, these bikes are very reliable and great fun to ride.

I recommend you look for the 1974 to 1983 years. Improvements had been made by then, and its easier to find parts for those years.

Good luck on finding a bike.
 

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Mine is pleasant at 45-50mph, which is all I want out of it. I don't go anywhere in a hurry on it. It's strictly for pleasure. I short shift it up to 5th, and it's roll on decent torque. I have modern, more comfortable bikes if I want to go farther, faster, or harder. You will more than likely find a "decent" later model special in your price range. Mint? Have not seen many I would call mint for less than 5K., and they will bring that from the right buyer. Mine shows her age (like me!), but it's a family piece that I sat on in the showroom when it was new, and it's been in my bloodline's possession since it was rolled out of Broadway Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki in Paintsville Kentucky in April 1979. I just took it in last summer and done some reliability upgrades to her. A fun bike that I don't expect much but smiles from.
 
Mine is pleasant at 45-50mph, which is all I want out of it. I don't go anywhere in a hurry on it. It's strictly for pleasure. I short shift it up to 5th, and it's roll on decent torque. I have modern, more comfortable bikes if I want to go farther, faster, or harder. You will more than likely find a "decent" later model special in your price range. Mint? Have not seen many I would call mint for less than 5K., and they will bring that from the right buyer. Mine shows her age (like me!), but it's a family piece that I sat on in the showroom when it was new, and it's been in my bloodline's possession since it was rolled out of Broadway Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki in Paintsville Kentucky in April 1979. I just took it in last summer and done some reliability upgrades to her. A fun bike that I don't expect much but smiles from.

Back when I was young the idea of riding it at a speed less than 85 was an alien concept. I think it would be different now. However, I never liked riding at a speed so slow that 4 wheelers were routinely passing me.

Thanks for all the real life anecdotal experiences. They are hugely helpful.

As to "mint". I neither need nor want it. I just want to be in the configuration that it came from the factory or close. I do not have a collector's mentality. However, going back to the days of the old VW beetles - I saw incessant mods and "improvements" that foolish kids made to 'em (no offense to the fools). I never understood how they thought the could out-think a German engineer.

This is not to say that as a design matures improvements cannot be made by clever people. However, I've always adhered to the notion that changing a factory configuration was something that should be approached with great circumspection. As to the "cool" factor -- that has never resonated with me.

Just sayin'..

V
 
A picture is worth about 1000 words, so have a look at my 1978 Special.

I bought this bike locally and have been riding it for 8 seasons now. I don't know where these tales of vibration come from, but my bike runs with minimal vibration. Definitely not smooth like a 4 cylinder bike, but just enough vibes to let you know its a real motorcycle.

My signature line tells the story of additions to my bike. With a few modern up-grades, these bikes are very reliable and great fun to ride.

I recommend you look for the 1974 to 1983 years. Improvements had been made by then, and its easier to find parts for those years.

Good luck on finding a bike.

It's really beautiful. It's resemblance to a Triumph is quite striking. I never noticed that in all these years until now.

V
 
This might be a suitable topic for a completely new thread.

But let's say I buy a barn find or similar. Generally, my experience with the rebuildability (if that's a word?) of Japanese carburetors - whether in cars or motorcycles - has not been very favorable. Going back to early 80s Toyotas it was explained to me that some of the passage ways were so tiny that the inevitable corrosion of the aluminum made them unrebuildable.

So this leads to a new question. If I find one that hasn't run in a long time should the prudent mariner assume that they're not rebuildable and need to be replaced?

If so, what is the after market situation? What would they cost? Is their a single carburetor option similar to what the old Triumph 650s had? The twin carb Triumphs were designated "Bonnevilles". I can't remember what the single carb models were called but they existed.

Is that an option for these?

Also, what about modern unleaded gas with ethanol in it.

Does that play any havoc with these?

Thanks again.

VT
 
Welcome vtuck2,

there are 3 frame type of XS/TX 650's. First frame, (from 70XS1-73TX), is known to be a bit squirrelie and these early bikes are almost completely different from the 74 and later models. Engine internals/frame and tins make these models more collectable and header to get some parts for. That is the simple explanation.

74TXA-79F, (Standard or Roadster models), had a new frame and are considered to be the best frame for building a racer or tracker, (in standard form), mainly due to the upright position of the rear shocks. The engine internals were changed and it is basically the same engine used untill the end of production in 83/84. This engine is commonly called a 447 type and used a points ignition until 1980 and then from and including 1980, a Factory electronic ignition, (TCI), was used till the end of production.

78 was the first year they produced a Special model and was styled more as a custom/cruiser type and the frame had some minor changes to reflect the style but the dimensions are almost identical to the Standard. The rear shock mount was bought a little forward and the rear wheel was changed to a 16" fat tyre. the Standard and Specials were produced along side each other for 2 years in 78/79. The Specials were later called Heritage Specials in 1982 and continued untill the end of production.

78 and 79 and the 1980 G, (Special II), although were Specials the cosmetics were different to later models.

I created a thread, that ggGary referred to, and designed it for someone like your self who wanted to get to know about these bikes and differences between models. I have posted links throughout the posts relating to information that is informative and covers just about all the first up questions that someone needs to know and will ask.

Have a read through, Make sure you go through all the manual posts because i have posted links relating to that area where it is covered in the manual. These links are also posted in the Tech Menu.

Go to the Tech Menu and scroll down to "Maintenance and General Troubleshooting", there are 2 posts that should be read before buying a bike.
"Bike won't start? Running rough?"
"Buying guide - Getting to know your bike."

Reading through all of this will cover most of your questions, ones you have raised and others yet to. There will always be plenty of help and questions will be answered from all of us here.
 
This might be a suitable topic for a completely new thread.

But let's say I buy a barn find or similar. Generally, my experience with the rebuildability (if that's a word?) of Japanese carburetors - whether in cars or motorcycles - has not been very favorable. Going back to early 80s Toyotas it was explained to me that some of the passage ways were so tiny that the inevitable corrosion of the aluminum made them unrebuildable.

So this leads to a new question. If I find one that hasn't run in a long time should the prudent mariner assume that they're not rebuildable and need to be replaced?

If so, what is the after market situation? What would they cost? Is their a single carburetor option similar to what the old Triumph 650s had? The twin carb Triumphs were designated "Bonnevilles". I can't remember what the single carb models were called but they existed.

Is that an option for these?

Also, what about modern unleaded gas with ethanol in it.

Does that play any havoc with these?

Thanks again.

VT
Hi vtuck2..firstly welcome to this forem its a wise move if you want to own an xs650.. Your right about the bonnie crank design being the cause of a lot of its vibration, but a the xs has a 4 bearing crank its less of an issue. mine vibrates around 4500 to 5500 rpm so being in the 70 to 85mph range is annoying cos thats the ideal crusing speed..lots of cures for the vibs, .. I personally would go for a roadster model B or C model. with spoked ,flanged takasago rims.and BS38 carbs.. The customs are nice but if you liked the triumph styling then this is nearer that.. You guys are so lucky, there seems to be no end to nice $1000 barn finds in the states, while here in the UK the same thing would cost double or treble... You can get single carb conversions for the XS but personally I like the twin carb setup as long as they are linked, not on seperate cables as they are a pain to keep in balance.They all came with 2 carbs, ( think the single carb triumph as called the tiger). The use of unleaded was never a problem but the ethanol in it can over time attack some rubber components but overall this is not a major problem. So good luck with your search to find one, these are good solid bikes with character and no major faults,but like everything they can be improved upon..
 
Yes, i should expand on my paint shaker comment more. Its pleasant to about 55mph. I dobt find it horrible after. But cruising at 70mph free speeds is annoying and tiresome after a while. Back roads are defietly its forte. The overdrive 5th would probably really help that. It was yamahas first 4 stroke. Gear ratios seem a bit close together...5 especially. On nice calm days, as in no wind. Lower revs in 5 at 60+ would be great.
 
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