oil filter

Is this a warning to shut the hell up............:eek:

No not at all! Just trying to put a smile on a few faces. :) This stuff is great, just try to keep it civil and remember things don't always come off as intended on the internet.
 
What? you guys don't say "on the internet"? Like "everyone's an expert on the internet" or... "everyone's a tough guy on the internet" :laugh:

Or do I not get what you mean by, this is the internet?

Damn it! that's what I'm talking about! :banghead:
 
aaahhh.. You meant, this is the internet, people aren't always civil.

Noise doesn't bother me. As long as it is motorcycle related! :woowoo: Pun intended.

I was just saying, people may say something that you might interpret as rude, when it may not have been intended to be. Lack of tone, body language, inflection, etc, on the internet is a common cause of miscommunication or misinterpretation. So when someone says something that you may think is rude, you just have to ask yourself "What is the best possible way that could have been intended?", then keep in mind cultural and regional differences in language and also that lack of tone and body language, before you reply. I'm sure everyone already knew that though... And by keep it civil, I meant, don't make it personal, just as a general statement to everyone.. :thumbsup:

Now back to oil filters! And pressures and junk! :wink2:
 
Good morning and peace to you all.

When I was sleeping my innocent sleep the discussion has continued:thumbsup:

I agree completely with Travis: lets go back to oilfilters and pressures and junk!:D

So here I come:

XSJohn: I am very interested in the story about the restriction of 15 to 20 % in oil flow. Is that a general statement or did he really measure that in an XS?
I measured the pressure drop in the suction channel in the side cover, and with cold 20W50 oil and 5000 rev/min this negative pressure was much less than 0.1 bar.

Here you see the connection that I made in the suction channel

sumpfilter2-1.jpg


The oilpump is directly driven by the engine and will deliver the same amount of oil. IMO the underpressure in the suction channel between sumpfilter and oilpump cannot slow down the oilpump. Only exessive internal leaking of the pump could effect the oil flow.

In the future I will connect a gauge every 500 km or so, to monitor the change in pressure drop. This will give me some information about the lifetime of the filter element

Kind regards, Hein
 
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Hein .....It was 5 years ago or more when I spoke to an engineer at Wix....per phone call.......I explained just how was adding a paper oil filter on the high side to the right cover in place of the oil screen.......he saw no problems but did mention the 15-20 percent restriction for the paper as tested with 30 weight oil.......he seemed pretty avid about it........wish I had asked him how he tested them to arrive at this conclusion.....and I think he did mention that the size of the filter was also a determining factor....maybe you can contact a filter company and pose this question..........I would be interested in other opinions myself..........I haven't had any problems in 50 thousand miles or so with this setup.......I did tell him as a guess that I though the max pressure of the XS was somewhere at 15 LBS at high rpm and much lower at cruising......I did set my side clearance in the pump at .002 thousands when I installed the filter.......it was .0035 thou.....

And I have probably made my situation a bit worse by cleaning the filter instead of replacing it.......not a sound comes from my engine though..........

xsjohn
 
Thanks XSJohn,

The standard oilpump has a capacity of 7.5 liter/min @ 5000 revs. If the paper filter element ristricts the oil flow by 20 % that means that the internal leak in the oilpump has to be 1.5 liter/min. It is hard to believe that adding differential pressure of <0.1 bar (I measured that) across the filter element can do that. The restrictions in the rest of the lubrication system are much bigger and build up a pressure of more than 1 bar, without effecting the oil flow.

Maybe it's time to do some experiments with a separate oil pump and filters and just measure the oil flow under different conditions.

Hein
 
John: in the restriction discussion, did he mention surface area at all? My point being that the folded paper element has a *much* larger surface area than the standard screen by being folded into pleats. thus, if the surface area of the paper element exceeds the surface are of the stock screen by more that 20% (which i imagine it does) you've canceled out the restriction, and might actually make it freer flowing.
 
Sundie.........He (Wix) was talking about oil filters...commercial type ....and in our case the smaller ones.....they I would suppose have to have the folded paper.....the one I use does.....paper is much less porous than a screen.....maybe you guys could emal or call a filter company and see what they say........I called Wix and asked the receptionist if I could speak to a engineer...suprisingly she connected me to one........I described the existing stock screen filter to him in the discussion..

The porousness I assume would be measured in microns..........the screen would be next to no restriction I would also assume......

xsjohn
 
Just pulled my sump screen down to clean & inspect screen is intact some small shavings on magnets.looks like gasket on sump and on the bike no gasket under where the screen bolts to the sump.
what should the bypass valve in the filter bolt be set at,does it matter? futher in equal more oil pressure? I put a tank of gas through my bike after much restoring and now am getting weird intermittent sounds,almost like a rod knock,but i guess they are
almost unheard of.just checking making sure my oil system was clear and it is.
Is there supposed to be a gasket where sump attaches to the sump
Thanks
Billy
 
I don't think there is a gasket where the filter mounts to the sump plate, I don't have one.
The bypass in the rightside oil screen should be set flush or just under flush with the mount bolt. This sets the bypass about 15psi.
Making this tighter would not increase the oil pressure. It would just increase the amount of pressure the bypass opens at.
If the engine only makes 15 psi you wouldn't want the bypass set to 20 psi. If the filter plugged you would get no oil.
 
I just reread this thread. Some very good points made by all. It seems like the best practice, irreguardless of filters, is to change oil often. This way any junk gets flushed out with the old oil.
Some one was asking about oil filters for the sump plate spin on conversion. I built one and use a filter that fits a garden tractor. You can get them most anywhere a garden tractor is sold. The cheapest I found them is a Lowe's. Around $10, a bit more at Walmart.
I have looked at car filters, none of them are as short as the garden tractor filter.
I have also adapted a right side cover to use an external oil filter. It will also allow the use of an oil cooler.
If I install all the parts the oil flows from the sump through the spin on sump filter to the pump, out to the external filter, to the cooler, then back into the side cover through the side cover filter into the engine. Filtered 3 times and cooled too.
I don't use the spin on sump filter due to cost. The external filter is PH3600 or equivilent.
I can use any filter that has 3/4 x 16 threads for sump or external filter.
 
i know the specs on how often to change the oil, and im going to get the side oil filter with the cooling fins from mikesxs that i will change out with every oil change, but how often should i change the sump oil filter? or can i just clean it every time i change my oil? also i don't really have the resources or money to mod my sump oil filter at this time, is the replacement one from mikes at least usable, if i put on inxs's protection plate? is copper the best thing to use for that? thanks guys!
 
- if your sump filter is intact wash it and reuse...if ruptured it can often be repaired if youre careful...the shield is imperitive for the original sump filters, newer ones have a backing behind the sieve that helps prevent rupturing, however i have personally had problems with quality control-the 2 i have recieved have both been fucked from factory, a reason why i dont trust mikesxs, quite apart from his bad customer relations, and quite apart from the fact theyre simply too expensive
 
- original ones? - well, without a shield theyre always going to be substandard, even if you can find one-only used for XS650-have found some stateside for 55 dollars cf small spin on for less than 10 dollars...and mikesxs is now the premiere source for parts...this is why i am prepared to go the extra in order to remove myself as much as i can from having to deal with him-i dont see why i should blow my hard earned cash with someone i cant trust
 
inxs you ever deal with Heiden tuning?

Reason I ask is most of the engine parts and such come from them anyway. It's just cheaper to get them from Mike. From what I have understood Heiden is a pretty upstanding guy right?
 
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