Starter Gear Whishbone......

xsjohn

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Yea...if you replace your starter #4 gear ......make sure you you use the original wishbone on the new gear...way stiffer..bend all you want on the replacement wishbone but it is weak and can cause future problems with miss starts and jumping out .....learned this one the hard way........have some pictures also on how to refurb a used gear to make it like new that skips and doesn't enguage properly...and make it go deeper into the crank teeth instead of just halfway so it doesn't wear on the edge of the teeth.........bit of a teck thing and you can regrind the face of the old starter gear and remove the rubber on the engine side for a more complete engagement ......but you better have the original wishbone....will show later if anyone cares.............Thought I would start a new thread on this subject because everyone will be into this subject........sooner or later......

And a grinding and crap starter will hose your center main and R/S main eventually...

xsjohn
 
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Well, on my '78/E, I just removed the return spring. That's what keeps the gear from fully engaging. Did that in '96 when I replaced the #4 gear. Works great. I have inspected the gear about every two years since and there is no sign of wear.

Ride. Enjoy. Life is simple
 
Pete........for some reason I couldn't get mine to disengage withought the spring and the starter gear would jingle on the crank teeth at idol and shutdown.......but I didn't try it with the original stiffer wishbone spring which I believe the aftermarket spring being much weaker was my problem to start with...

xsjohn
 
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Ol' preacher Dan says use a little screw type hose clamp on the small of the wishbone to hold it tight. I think it was him done that. Reckon.
 
John Thanks for Sharing, I am working on that part right now Re-bent my clip to get proper tension,
Its ready to install.
Kick start has not been engaging properly for some time. I hope that does the trick. I thought Maybe i needed a new clip its nice to know that would be a waste of $.
 
Well something as simple as changing out the starter gear I had to make a project out of it.......first of all I didn't have a new #4 gear......I had collected a few used ones and decided to see if I could make it like new.....being the cheap bastard that I am............

I ground the teeth flat again with a thin grinding disk....turning the gear by hand .........

Then I noticed that the gear had only been going in half way so I decided to cut the rubber off the engine side of the gear...this made it go all the way into the crank gear instead of half way...which I think is half the problem with these wearing out........

But removing the rubber would pinch the round spring because it limits the space for the round spring so I had to rebend the spring into a cone so when depressed it would go into itself............and it doesn't make a clank as it engages when taking off the rubber like I thought it might.....

I tried it and I worked but I was using a aftermarket wishbone which is way weaker that the original..........It would still not catch all the time........put the original wishbone in after pinching it a bit and it worked like a champ..........

Here is my take on not using the round spring........Mine made a jingling noise at idol and I could actually hear it on the highway sometimes........and when I turned off the engine it sounded like a loose timing chain as the engine came to rest.....


And I measured the recommended 5 lbs tension on the wishbone and mine was more like 10 lbs or more before it worked right.........It was hard to turn the wishbone and it hurt my finger a bit........but by this time my hands were getting tired of springs and gears....tkhis procedure is probably not for everyone but I tried it to see if it could be done.........:yikes:

And the picture below is an aftermarket spring which I found to be junk so I used an original Yamaha spring and pinched it a bit.....not as much as shown in the picture.......and you can start the engine momentarly without oil in it to test.....well I did anyway....

xsjohn
 

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Blue........rebending the wishbone spring always worked for me.........but I think I had a weak aftermarket spring that pestered the crap out of me for a long time.......after I started messing with the gears I never could get it to operate right untilI put an original Yamaha wishbone spring in there......it was easy to see it was way stiffer than the aftermarket junk wishbone I had been using...and I think 5 lbs on the spring to get it to move is not enough......at least it wasn't for mine......10 at least ....and you can see if it's working right without the clutch and cover off for a momentary test.........

xsjohn
 
Pete........for some reason I couldn't get mine to disengage withought the spring and the starter gear would jingle on the crank teeth at idol and shutdown.......but I didn't try it with the original stiffer wishbone spring which I believe the aftermarket spring being much weaker was my problem to start with...

xsjohn


That may be the issue. I replaced my #4 gear with a Yamaha gear and wishbone spring. What gave me the idea to remove the return spring was I tried that so I could use the worn out gear while I was waiting for the factory replacement. It provided enough additional clearance for the worn out gear to work for a week or so, so I decided to just keep it removed when the new gear arrived.

I also have a fully functional safety relay which cuts off the starter motor the instant that the engine starts, so the disengagement is complete. I even laid down on the floor a couple of times with the cover off and watched the action. The gear disengaged completely. (Yes, I did run the engine briefly with no oil)
 
Pete maybe thats what happened to mine with the weak wishbone when I tried it the #4 gear wouldn't fully retract......and wouldn't disengage sometimes


xsjohn
 
That may be the issue. I replaced my #4 gear with a Yamaha gear and wishbone spring. What gave me the idea to remove the return spring was I tried that so I could use the worn out gear while I was waiting for the factory replacement. It provided enough additional clearance for the worn out gear to work for a week or so, so I decided to just keep it removed when the new gear arrived.

I also have a fully functional safety relay which cuts off the starter motor the instant that the engine starts, so the disengagement is complete. I even laid down on the floor a couple of times with the cover off and watched the action. The gear disengaged completely. (Yes, I did run the engine briefly with no oil)

My starter engages okej after fixing the wishbone clip, but doesn't disengage at all now. It did before but not quickly enough, so I thought I'd just stretching the return spring to enable it to push out the gear faster. But for some reason it doesn't disengage at all now...

I didn't know the spring could be leaved out, thought it was needed to push the gear out, make it disengage. :confused: Or can a weak wishbone clip cause the gear not to disengage as well?

Your'e mentioning the starter solenoid. If the gear is not stuck, could it be that there is still current on the starter, making it to keep spinning and not disengaging, even though the engine fires up?

Only a few times it has diesengaged properly. But shutting the engine off and then starting, it's not disengaging again...

BTW...

After shutting the engine off with the starter gear still rattling, I tried kickstarting the engine. It started but with the rattling still sounding. In some way the gear is stuck engaged.


M
 
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