XS650.com
Forum Search: Advanced

Go Back   XS650 Forum > General Discussion > The Garage
Register Forum FAQ XS650 Tech Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Donate

Welcome to XS650.com!
XS650.com is dedicated to the Yamaha XS650 twin motorcycles and to the people who love to ride, restore, and customize them. As a guest you can view the forum and photo galleries full of xs650 choppers, bobbers, trackers, cafe racers, and restorations, but you have to register before you can post or view attachments. Itís free and only takes a minute. Proceed to registration. (This notice will go away once you log in)

Notices

The Garage Motorcycle Related Discussion (Yamaha XS650, other makes and models, and anything else motorcycle related including tools and gear)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-20-2013, 12:57 AM   #1
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

hello ive just hit the point where im actually starting to rebuild my 447 engine & i need to know how to safly remove the needle bearing that supports the gear shaft off the finger selectors. is there a preferred way inward or outward to remove it from the casing?? also installing a new replacment. heres a few pix, this isnt the bottom end im using as its actually cracked all the way around the bearing in qeustion which leads me to believe sumbody has bashed it causing the crack.
thank you
Attached Thumbnails
SAM_0153.jpg   SAM_0154.jpg  
mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:11 AM   #2
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

its really easy as long as you have access to a press.

I actually got my 79 xs650 cheap as the po couldn't work out how to remove it. The blank end that you see in the case is actually the end of the bearing housing NOT part of the engine case.

The needle bearing housing is extremely thin and easily deformed. It it needs to be carefully pressed out from the inside of the case. Don't try press or drift the bearing out from the outside of the case

First make note of where the bearing sits in the case to ensure it is pressed into excactly the same original position. Use a micrometer if you have one. Mine sat with the lip of the bearing slightly proud of the surrounding case by approx 2mm

Place the selector drum loose ,in its normal position with the spigot inserted in the bearing . Line up the press on the screw at the other end of the selector drum. Then very slowly press the bearing out making sure you keep everything in line.

It doesn't require huge force simply accurate alignment so a hand press will probably do fine although I got mine pressed by a cnc mill at the local engineering shop for free .

Use the gear selector drum again to press the new bearing into place from the inside of the case. Make sure you don't press it in too far in.

Apologies for poor video quality http://youtu.be/Httck1qYBAM


Last edited by peanut; 02-20-2013 at 04:11 AM.
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 06:08 AM   #3
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

gday peanut, thanks for that, i actually found similar info upon looking a second time through the forum listings...thats tomorrow nights job, or one of.
i may have to ask you about my trans system if i cant sort out a current issue myself. appreciate the help. cheers
mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 07:36 AM   #4
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

you're welcome mate!

Dig your hotrod ... see that you also have a Royal Oilfield

Always lusted after a Interceptor but too much money these days
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #5
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

Royal 'oilfield'! Fantastic typo! Ive just put a 3x2 carb setup on the coupe in my pic..very hotrod..very inpractical..lol
mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 12:16 PM   #6
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

glad I'm not tuning that lot !

How did the bearing swop go ?
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:44 AM   #7
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

gday nut, that gear shaft bearing was a breeze..did it in my small 6ton press.
ive put my gear clusters 2gether but cant get em turning...ive got both shafts set up right, but no neutrel
heres a few pix, man id love some help cheers
Attached Thumbnails
SAM_0146.jpg   SAM_0145.jpg   SAM_0144.jpg   SAM_0143.jpg  

mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 03:58 PM   #8
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

Hi MC sorry I missed your message. Notifications went to an unmanned email address.

Looking at your pic it looks to me like you have the gears in the wrong casing half for assembly?
I expect you've sorted the problem and built the engine by now!

Heres mine for comparison .
Attached Thumbnails
gear clusters.jpg  
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:49 AM   #9
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

i only just notice ive put the wrong pic up nut, heres where i am, everything is together but i dont think i have the movment through all the gears i saw a video on google or somewhere similar of a guy shifting through the gears, im looking for that very video now..lol
if i click the 'star shifter' once to the left it will click but no gears throw & im still in neutral so im thinking i need to look at the position i assembled the shifter drum & fingers perhaps??
heres a pic & thanks for the confidance, havnt quite finished the build just yet ha.
Attached Thumbnails
SAM_0155.jpg  
mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 08:04 AM   #10
Brian902
XS650 Junkie
 
Brian902's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 691
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

Here is a view of the end of the shift drum. The wheel on the little arm is the location device for each gear. Unless the shifter is in that exact position, the shift to that gear is not correct and your transmission is likely in a lock-up or a between gear neutral.

Make sure you have this device attached, perhaps without the spring, just to locate the proper rotation point of the shift drum. Then test. Make sure the drum doesn't move once the wheel settles into it's spot

Each gear should work with a little fiddling when rotating the input shaft, clutch shaft that is. Sometime you need to place a slight load on the output shaft, sprocket shaft, to get the shift completed.

4th picture down.
http://www.650motorcycles.com/assembly1.html

Other tips:
http://www.650motorcycles.com/repairs.html


Last edited by Brian902; 02-26-2013 at 08:18 AM.

Brian (1978 XS650SE / 270 / Web Cam / Probe Ignition / CVK's)
Brian902 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 08:09 AM   #11
XSLeo
XS650 Guru
 
XSLeo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lebanon NY
Posts: 10,412
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

The transmission wasn't designed to shift with no movement, the shafts need to be turning.
Leo


The only way you can find out if you can do something is to try.
75 XS650B with a few mods, Dual disc brakes up front, Disc on rear, Pamcopete Ignition with the green coil, Radio Shack rectifier and Chrysler regulator, LED tail/brake and turnsignals. 750 kit,1.5 headepipes, Emgo shorty mufflers.
XSLeo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 05:16 PM   #12
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

Hi MC
have you still got problems with your gears ?
Is it that the input and output shafts don't spin together ?
Or is it that you can't select any gears ?

I had a selection problem when I put my gears in the case last year but luckily I tested the gear selectors before fitting the gear clusters and closing the cases.

The problem was that the split pin in the centre gear fork was fouling on the adjacent selector fork preventing full travel of the forks through all the gears.

I bent the head of the split pin over and there was then enough clearance. I expect somone will be along in minute to tell me that I didn't use the correct split pin or put it in the wrong way round lol

Heres a couple of pics showing the problem I had and also a section of a video clip I was putting together for my future reference regarding fitting and testing the gear clusters. Hope its some help.
.
.
http://youtu.be/VyUtHBEWaJ8
.
.
Attached Thumbnails
xs650 gear selectors binding 2.jpg   xs650 gear selectors binding.jpg  


Last edited by peanut; 02-26-2013 at 05:18 PM. Reason: typo
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 01:29 AM   #13
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

hi all, thanks for the help & suggestions.
umm, ive been tinkering tonight & have reset the position of the drum now i have movement through all four gears but have no neutral.
that video was great thanks penut, i tried holding the imput shaft & turning the output just as you did but no dice...ive clearly made a mistake somewhere.
will ofcourse persevere. damn you neutral lol
mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 02:03 AM   #14
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

neutral 3x mistercartoon 0

Hi MC sounds like you are nearly there!

Just a thought ...have you fitted all the detent parts correctly to the case ?
Maybe the detent plunger is not slotting into the detent depression in the selector drum ?

Have you checked that the detent cylinder is the right way round ie rounded end towards the drum and the spring is fitted

If you remove the detent assembly and spin the selector drum through 1st & 2nd you should be able to see the tiny concave detent depression on the selector drum ,by looking down the detent hole in the case.
The drum depression should line up exactly with the detent hole in the case

There is a good picture of the neutral detent parts on this thread http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19189


Last edited by peanut; 02-27-2013 at 02:57 AM. Reason: spelling error
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 12:51 AM   #15
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

i thought about that so what ive done is removed the drum/shifting workings & simply sat the shafts inplace but the same problem im still there. SO! going back to basics can you confirm i have the correct moving gears in the correct places. Here is the same picture with the measurements & teeth numbers of my gears as they sit.
Ive put these shafts together from being in pieces so it could be likly ive buggered up.
thank you again
Attached Thumbnails
SAM_0155.jpg  
mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 08:01 AM   #16
Brian902
XS650 Junkie
 
Brian902's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 691
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

Here is a picture from a German manual, where he marked the number of teeth for each.

Found some more pics.

Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
xs650transmission.jpg   xs650trany.jpg   xs650shiftdrum.jpg  


Last edited by Brian902; 02-28-2013 at 08:27 AM.

Brian (1978 XS650SE / 270 / Web Cam / Probe Ignition / CVK's)
Brian902 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 03:04 PM   #17
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

that looks ok . I just went out into the shed and checked mine.

I'll check all the gears closely when I've got my Father to bed
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #18
peanut
XS650 Guru
 
peanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somerset UK
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercartoon View Post
i
Ive put these shafts together from being in pieces so it could be likly ive buggered up.
thank you again

aghhhhhhhhh when did you tell us that ??? oh you just did .......

You're going to need to dissassemble and reassemble them again methinks . The schematic Brian supplied should help
peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #19
mistercartoon
XS650 Enthusiast
 
mistercartoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 50
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

oops sorry i may have only told half the story peanut.. i got this entire bike in a million pieces!
looking at those images id say ive got the actual shafts set up correctly.
great images brian, thanks!
one qeustion though...theres 'dots' drilled or machined in a couple of the gears (on the outside flat surface) these are factory done, can anybody tell me what they might indicate?
its the weekend here...im going to sort all this out or go mad trying! ha
cheers
mistercartoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 06:26 AM   #20
Brian902
XS650 Junkie
 
Brian902's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 691
Default Re: removing gear shaft needle bearing-help needed

Check this site for gear explanation;

http://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com...4/xs650-gears/

and lots of other good stuff.


Brian (1978 XS650SE / 270 / Web Cam / Probe Ignition / CVK's)
Brian902 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Similar Threads (based on keywords)
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted - Mainshaft cylindrical needle bearing hard_y_rd Classifieds 9 12-19-2012 02:19 PM
Starting motor shaft removing Pierrax The Garage 12 09-01-2012 08:45 AM
output shaft bearing keeper. swimrdie46 The Garage 2 04-15-2012 09:22 AM
Help: Removing Jet Needle VCPatel The Garage 2 05-19-2011 10:56 PM
MikesXS Clutch Needle bearing Viper The Garage 2 04-27-2010 09:29 PM

Bookmarks
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:23 AM.