Stumped with electrical! ( I know, typical)

Greetings All!

I know, I know I know. I am going to say it all for you, before you start in on me. There are a ton of schematics out there. GO READ THEM.

I DID! I am having a hell of a time getting my wiring figured out. It seems like every one I see isn't quite right for me. almost all of it is, but something is different, or doesn't quite make sense. Wiring colors don't jive, or they are using a component I don't plan to, etc...

To start, it is a POINTS motor. chassis code is 447-211851. Which I have found is a 1975-76 XS-C, US model, in French Blue. Which matched the paint and tank I have. I picked it up as a rolling chassis. Wiring in a box. I hardtailed it , pulled the motor for a quick cleanning and top end rebuild, and now it is time for install and wiring.

Some questions that I cannot find answers to, or I don't understand the answers I find.

1) The two wires on the condensers. All the diagrams I see, it is a single wire from the condensers. Is one a ground and the other for the coil? Both wires are black, so that doesn't help! As far as I have found from research, the BODY of the condenser is the ground to the chassis. So where do they go!?!?

The way I am wired right now is: each point to each condenser wire A (just for reference), each condenser to each coil (wire B), condensers grounded to chassis, and coils connected to each other, then to starter relay.

My points wiring is one solid orange, one orange with white stripe. DO THEY MATTER?

2)If I want to run a combined Reg/Rec, which I picked up as a cheap trade, I know I have to unground the brush assy with nylon screws. Got it. Is there anything else I have to do? PLEASE BE SPECIFIC) (I do plan on running no starter)

3) (And this one I am sure to get multiple responses to) I want to run kick only. I know I need a (capacitor/coil?). AND NO I AM NOT SPENDING AN ARMS AND A LEG FOR PEMCO OR ANY OTHER STYLE IGNITION!!) THis is a low budget build, and I am using what I have. Minus a coil/cap or anything else THAT IS CHEAP.
(I am runnig headlight/taillight only) possibly turn signals down the road, but thats another discussion)

4) If I am running a toggle switch on/off power (no ignition switch) and a push button start, where should I put the kill switch? Between the regulator or rectifier and the power, or after the regulator or rectifier and charging system? I am stumped on this one.

5) WTF is a contact breaker? Is that the points?

I know what I would like, which would be a wiring diagram specific for my bike and my needs. I know that isn't going to happen. But can someone help me work through this?

I can take pics, but posting them is rough. I can text them or email them from my phone if need be.

Thank you in advance to anyone who replies with a meaningful contribution.

Welcome to the site. What color of wire is doesn't matter. What ever color the wires coming off the points and plate the harness. 79 has orange and other might be tan. One 2 wire condenser not 2. Black wires splice into the harness after the heat resistant wires end about mid backbone. One on each wire. Factory kill switch and throttle cheap shot.

Here's a schematic for your question #1:

#2 - Combined rec/reg's come in different flavors.

The one for the 70-79 charging system supplies power to a grounded rotor, does not use the 3-nylon screw mod.

The one for the 80-83 charging system grounds a powered rotor. Requires the 3-nylon screw mod if used on 70-79 alternator.

Then there's the rec/reg used on PMA charging systems.

The rec/reg unit must be properly matched to the alternator, so you need to determine what you have.

This is a standard points/condenser/coil wiring diagram.



Basically ALL points are wired this way.
You have to do this TWICE, one for each side. Like scabber says there are TWO condensers held in one bracket. You have to TEST old condensers or replace them they often go bad and cause endless hard start, poor running problems. ditto; points sets, coils spark plugs, wires, caps.
You MUST run a battery with the stock charging system. It doesn't need to be big but the rotor needs 12 volts to start the charging, just like any (modern) car if there is no juice it can't start making juice.

#3 - Kick only? No starter? Stock alternator (not PMA)?

Only the Permanent Magnet Alternator charging system can be run batteryless, but needs a capacitor in place of the battery. The stock alternator needs battery power to initially feed the alternator's rotor.

(Electrical wizards can get around these rules, but we won't go there)

This may help with the battery selection:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37060
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1493

Scabber,
So you are saying that I only need a SINGLE two wire conensor instead of TWO, dual wire condensers?
That makes the most sense of anything I have heard so far.

skadoosh said:

4) If I am running a toggle switch on/off power (no ignition switch) and a push button start, where should I put the kill switch? Between the regulator or rectifier and the power, or after the regulator or rectifier and charging system? I am stumped on this one...

Click to expand...

Sounds pretty confusing, doesn't it. Push button start? Kick only?

The easiest method would be to follow the simple XS1 wiring. The charging system positive and battery positive are connected. A toggle switch connects that positive to the main harness brown wire. Best to add a fuse before the switch.

If you want a kill switch, add one like the schematic in post #3.

If you want a functional push button start (to start the bike), we have to start all over, again...

TwoManyXS,

Thank you for the diagram. And the explination for the batteryless system. NOW I understand the concept.

gggGary,

Like Scabber was saying one 2 wire condenser. So, in your diagram, could i use a single two wire condenser in substitute of TWO condensers?

The stock condenser is actually 2 condensers, each with its own wire, but as a single component. It has a 2-hole mount flange that needs to be grounded. You might have it already. It's mounted out-of-sight inside the upper-left engine mount.

TwoMany,
I FINALLY understand!! It's a miracle! LOL. Thank you guys. Now I have to rewire a bit, but it will save me from destroying the bike.
The bike is a rolling chassis right now. NOTHING is on it. No tank, no seat, just a frame, forks, front and rear wheel and engine with carbs. So nothing is in its "stock" location. And when you said brown wire, did you mean the brown wire coming from the regulator? Which should power the lights, correct?

Brown is the universally accepted (in Yam XS650 terms) as THE main system hot wire. It feeds everything. Red is generally used for battery positive. Your toggle switch will connect the two...

So, once everything is hooked up correctly, the brown from the regulator will be a constant 12-14v?

The RED from the regulator (assuming you have the correct one) goes direct to the battery positive.
The BROWN going into the regulator turns it on, and lets the regulator know what the system voltage is, so it can regulate the output. This can also be called the 'sense' line...

Sorry if I am sounding ignorant. I am just not understanding the whole concept.
I work on diesels, not bikes.
I don't have the brown wire hooked up to anything. And since this is a bare bones build, what should it be hooked to so it can 'sense' system voltage?

Not an expert but the wires from the points connect to the coils and obtain power from the coils. 2 coils one wire from points goes to each coil. Orange to one coil orange and white to other coil.

skadoosh said:

Sorry if I am sounding ignorant. I am just not understanding the whole concept.
I work on diesels, not bikes.
I don't have the brown wire hooked up to anything. And since this is a bare bones build, what should it be hooked to so it can 'sense' system voltage?

Click to expand...

For a stock regulator, simply connect brown to brown (all browns connect together).
XSLeo's write-up may help you understand:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9625