How do I check and change oil on an XS650? Oil recommendations?

[blackleather650]

The other spec to check is the JASO DH-1 spec. The difference between the two is really just a higher amount of ash allowed in DH-1 vs. MA. Plus, on the DH-1 spec, it also gives seal compatability tests.

 

[xjwmx]

you can get Shell Rotella-T at about ANY truckstop on the planet! At a pretty cheap price, too!

You can also get it at any Walmart in the country too, which means it's always easily available. Cheapest at Walmart too.

XSLEO - A couple of months ago that tang gave up the ghost and broke off. I was able to get a stand that is a type where there is a gusset already welded on. I've not seen them except down here and I've seen three or four of them here. A gusset is an essential thing there, I've concluded, either the gusset from the factory or a triangle welded in there at a shop.

 

[mitchp]

O yea, the great oil debate. It will go on forever. I have used AMSOIL for many years. My 2 cycle dragbike has set many class records useing their excellent 2 stroke oil. Im using it in my Chevy Astro and it has 310,000 miles on the clock and the heads have never been off and the motor uses about 1 QT of oil every 20,000 miles. Use it in all my vintage bikes. Mitch

 

[blackleather650]

O yea, the great oil debate. It will go on forever. I have used AMSOIL for many years. My 2 cycle dragbike has set many class records useing their excellent 2 stroke oil. Im using it in my Chevy Astro and it has 310,000 miles on the clock and the heads have never been off and the motor uses about 1 QT of oil every 20,000 miles. Use it in all my vintage bikes. Mitch

How much is Amsoil a quart? Rotella-T T6 5W-40 full synthetic runs me about $18-21 A GALLON!My apologies, but in this economy, and with my present status(U.S. Army retired, after 21 years) I need to save all the money I can!

 

[xjwmx]

Rotella-T T6 5W-40

That's too thin for an xs650. WHen people here refer to rotella they mean 15w-40.

 

[5twins]

I feel even the 15-40 is a bit thin (in hot weather anyway). I tried it but went back to 20-50 because the top end clattered too much.

 

[TeeCat]

I feel even the 15-40 is a bit thin (in hot weather anyway). I tried it but went back to 20-50 because the top end clattered too much.

I'd tend to agree. I went to 10W-40 synth for winter so I could kick the bike more easily, and to avoid tearing my relatively new sump screen. I'd say it works for a mid-Atlantic winter, but any tiny propensity to weep oil seems to increase slightly. So I think 20W-50 is best for most of the year in these parts.

TC

 

[xjwmx]

Right, 20w-50 when it's hot, just switched back to it last week in fact. If the temps dip into the high 30s the other is good to have in there though. There was a period where the lows were in the 30s and the highs were in the 80s and definitely had more noise with Rotella. Was kinda worried but the trade off was I could be sure the bike would turn over fast enough to start in the mornings. I don't run it like a bat out of hell, so maybe it wasn't so bad.

I did get a lot of tappet pitting using the Rotella like that, even though it's supposed to contain an overkill of "zink".

 

[blackleather650]

Hello again all!
I did the research for everyone, and found the JASO/JSAE site that gives the JASO 903/904 t standard us bike people(gotta stay politically correct!) know as the JASO MA spec for motorcycles with combined crankcase/clutch/transmission oil supply systems(wet sump to the layman out there! It give all the information you could ask for, and also...just for grins and giggles, I'll give ya'll the site for the latest JASO DH-1 spec, to compare with the bike spec. The DH-1 spec gives, forgive my impetusness earlier, seal COMPATABILITY specs for JASO DH-1 rated lubricants. Read what these people have to say, then draw you own conclusions! (BTW, the implementation manuals, as they call them, are all written in ENGLISH, not Japanese! Thank God for a universal technical langauge!) Hope you all get some good info from this!

JASO MA specs-http://jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf

JASO DH-1 spec-http://jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/DH_0905.pdf

P.S.-The DH-1 spec even gives stuff like Valve Train Wear Protection and Hot Surface Deposit Control, things we folks are HIGHLY concerned with!

"Two roads divided in a narrow wood, and I, I took the one less traveled by, and that made ALL the difference!"

 

[blackleather650]

Hello again all!
Well, finally got my shipment of parts from Mike's XS....which included a Hayne's manual! Pays sometimes to read the literature before drawing conclusions! I owe SO MANY of you big apology! Yes, I agree with the masses on this one...the manual calls for 20W-50, which incendently happens to be one of my favorite weights of oil! The best one of these that I've found has gotta be Mobil 1 15W-50, full synthetic. The magazine Sport Rider did a test of motor oils for bike a while ago called "Oil's Well That Ends Well", very worthwhile reading, cause they actually sent samples to be tested at an oil-testing lab in Georgia. And, conversley, Amsoil bike and Mobil 1 15W-50 CAR oil were two that came out on top! I remember something about Gordon Jennings saying that he'd switched to the Mobil 1 product for all his bikes, because of the properties of it. Again, my apologies for stirring up such a shit-storm, I'll learn to look before I leap(someday!). Of course, part of my problem is that i just "let go" of an "06 GSXR-1000 that I had lowered, and was running in IHRA/NHRA/AMA Dragbike/SEMDRA races! Mabye the oil question is a mote point when changing it after every race!(Yeah, it was a daily driver too!) Thanks for everyone's understanding and patience! Keep the shiny side up!

P.S.- the pic I got as my avatar is Ian King, FIA/UEM 5-time Top Fuel Champion, on...A Yamaha(Puma)! Mabye someday, when I REALLY grow up...!LOL!

 

[Pyrobooster]

Hey Guys,

What does the manual say in regards to oil? Does it mention what type (auto, motorcycle, etc)? Finally does it mention interchangeability of thicknesses to accommodate for temperature/climate?

I have a 1980 Special 650 with only 5000 miles and I want to do it right and ride this baby til it falls apart.

Thanks,
Pyro

 

[650Skull]

Graph for oil to temperature

 

[Travis]

Pyrobooster, the manual says to use Yamalube 4-cycle oil or SAE 20w/40 type "SE" motor oil. I don't even think they make Yamalube in 20w/40 anymore. I don't think you can really go wrong with a motorcycle specific 20w/40 or 20w/50 unless you ride when it's really cold out.

 

[Pyrobooster]

650Skull, and Travis,

Thanks for the info and the chart, very helpful!

Pyro

 

[Nickyd]

Hey im new and doing my first oil change on my 1981 xs650. can some one explain or even post a pic on where i get to the sump filter? kinda confused on how i get the old one out and replace it with a new one.
Thank you!

 

[pamcopete]

Here is a letter from Castrol regarding the use of Diesel oil in any engine other than a Diesel engine. This letter was obtained by another member so I am just reprinting it here for information:

Although Castrol Diesel oils carry an S rating, its primary credentials are diesel. The S rating is meant for short term use if the owner cannot find the appropriate gasoline engine oil. Diesel engines and gasoline engines have different operating regimes (loads, temperatures, speeds, fuel, exhaust recirculation); the lubricants are formulated differently (additives, ZDDP) to be in line with the primary operating requirements of the engine. Diesel engine oil is formulated with very high levels of detergency to counteract the soot that is circulated back into the oil. Detergency is surface active and does compete with ZDDP for the surface of the cam lobe and lifter face. The proper engine oil to use long-term in gasoline classic car engines is an oil designed for use in a gasoline engine with the correct level of ZDDP to protect his cam and lifters.

So, apparently, you do not need the very high levels of detergent in a Diesel oil for your motorcycle, and the detergent impedes the action of ZDDP, which you do need.

I have tried a variety of oils over the years but since the mandated reduction of ZDDP for pollution requirements, it is now even more important to use a motorcycle specific oil. I am currently using Valvoline 4 Stroke 10W-40 in my Honda four cylinder bikes because they have Babbitt bearings on the crank and a high pressure (65 PSI) oil system. I use 20W-50 in the Yamaha XS650 because it is a low pressure oil system (5 to 15 PSI) with ball bearings on the crank.

The Valvoline 4 Stroke is JASO MA API SF/SG/SJ certified and is available at my local Advance Auto dealer, sometimes on sale including the filter I need for the Hondas. Non sale price is about $5.25 a quart. I change the oil more frequently on the XS650 because the ball and roller bearings actually crush the molecular polymers that give the oil it's "multi viscosity rating, leaving the oil at or near its base viscosity of 20 well before the oil has gotten dirty.

The Hondas can go a little longer because they both have built in replaceable full flow oil filters and the Babbitt bearings do not crush the polymers.

 

[Scrambled]

20-50 in the summer 10-40 in the winter if you live where the water freezes , NEVER use synthetic or you will destroy your clutch . I can't find 20-40 ( recommended by Yamaha) so Castrol 20-50 MOTORCYCLE oil seems to work ok, and 10-40 for winter use or storage .

( or just ask someone from the HOG ( Harley owners group ) they all get their oil changed at the dealers on Saturday mornings )

 

[XSLeo]

To Nickyd, to get to the sump filter you remove the sump plate, the filter is bolted to the inside of the sump plate. If you look at the bottom of the engine the front drain plug screws into the middle of the sump plate.
Look around the sump plate, you will find six bolts. These bolts hold the sump plate onto the engine.
You may not need a new one, they are designed to be cleaned and reused. It may be torn, it can be fixed. Search the forum for filter fixes.
Scrambled, If the synth oil is speced for a wet clutch it won't hurt it. If not then just like a dino oil not speced for a wet clutch it can slip.
I have over 50k miles on my Harley, over 40k miles of it with synth oil. The clutch works geart, always has always will.
Leo

 

[Scrambled]

To Nickyd, to get to the sump filter you remove the sump plate, the filter is bolted to the inside of the sump plate. If you look at the bottom of the engine the front drain plug screws into the middle of the sump plate.
Look around the sump plate, you will find six bolts. These bolts hold the sump plate onto the engine.
You may not need a new one, they are designed to be cleaned and reused. It may be torn, it can be fixed. Search the forum for filter fixes.
Scrambled, If the synth oil is speced for a wet clutch it won't hurt it. If not then just like a dino oil not speced for a wet clutch it can slip.
I have over 50k miles on my Harley, over 40k miles of it with synth oil. The clutch works geart, always has always will.
Leo

Not trying to argue with you Leo, but your Harley and your XS are two different animals. Some modern wet clutches will work with synthetic or oil with a bunch of additives . I learned about old bikes and synthetic oil the way I learn everything; the hard way. I went through 3 sets of clutch plates in a very short period of time on a 79 XR 500 Honda. Took a lot of time and money to figure that out. The modern spec synthetic motorcycle oil is for modern spec clutches. And, just like Pamco Pete says, our old XS motors do not function properly with the heavy detergents either.

 

[XSLeo]

Scrambled yes, the Harley and the XS are different.
On some of the parts seller parts look up you can put in a part number and it will tell you all the bikes that use the same part. The XS clutch plates were used, As I recall up to 03 or later on bikes as large as 1700 cc's.
I doubt those plates will be hurt. Also did the synth oil you tried have the JASO MA rating?
The main reason I don't use a synth oil in my XS's is they cost too much to change every 1000 - 1500 miles.
Leo