BIG MOUTH with a microphone!

Sure, he got it wrong (even wronger than you are saying, since assault weapons are fully automatic) but I'd take it as an honest mistake rather than an attempt to fudge his argument.

I see a "fashion trend" in the military look. If you don't, well we just see things differently.

The last gun I bought was a .22 made in the 60s, with a cheapass birch stock. My favorite gun though. Wood stocks are still very popular, better than 50/50 I think. Up here the old lever action from 100 years ago is popular.

Consider this; if you trace the history of guns you'll find a lot in civilian guns that's derived from military weapons. I'm not an expert but I think most of the bolt action rifles around derive some things from the German Mauser rifle, a military rifle. The bolt and associated stuff and the trigger mechanism and so on from a current military gun pretty much defines the look of the gun.

At latest count the current U.S. rifle isn't fully automatic but selects between semi and a three round burst. I guess you could call a three round burst automatic, technically speaking.
 
A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

as far as thinking a teacher or anyone else taking on someone wearing body armor and wielding a weapon that is firing a rifle round even in semi-auto mode must not have seen the bank shoot out in L.A., even the cops backed off until they got the heavy stuff out, just doesn't make sense
 
Body armor is an obstacle, not a fort. It can be overcome relatively easily, if you realize what you are dealing with. The hips are as wide as the chest, and very few vests cover the pelvis and lower abdomen. No human can walk with a shattered pelvis. One well-trained officer knew how to win in North Hollywood. I have been to the same training course he had attended less than 2 months earlier. He won, incidentally, with a Bushmaster rifle he got from a gun store, and knowing how to exploit the adversary's concept of cover.
 
"Body armor is an obstacle, not a fort" see Ned Kelly

yes he had the training and the equipment to do the job then, he didn't take the bad guy down with a pistol, I'm just saying anyone who thinks you can take on a bad guy armed with a hi-cap rifle or shotgun when all they have is a pistol is probably going to be on the losing end of the shoot out
 
Again, here is the list from the FBI. Proof is in the pudding.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

More knives and fists kill people each year than "rifles", which "assault rifles" are classified under.
Stop the violence and violent people. And I'll point out, (here comes the alcohol thing again), that it is a know fact that more violence is committed by intoxicated people.

I have CCDW (concealed carry deadly weapon) license. I had to run an ad in the paper for 2 weeks of my intent to make sure that anyone with a problem with me having it could speak up. I also had to take a mandated course, 5 character witness' (not friends or family) from my county, full State Police background check and finger printing, and the reason I "need" it, not just because I "wanted" one. And no, "protection of my house" is not a valid reason. You can have as many guns as you want in your house. They wanted to know why I "needed" one to carry out of my house.

I can do a whole lot more damage with my 12ga then a rifle. They want to ban the "black guns" so they can make everyone feel that they are doing something for the good of the people, then they can say they got rid of all the scary guns. Ah, we rejoice, the "assault weapons" are gone, yeah!!! But that is not going to do anything. They can ban all the rifles in the country, everyone of them, but lets refer back to the table I listed above. Look at all the weapons that were used to kill.

And for the definition of "assault rifle" we can look back a few years. First, the Brady laws, made , say an AR-15, illegal to own IF it had a bayonet lug, collapsible stock and a flash suppressor. However, if you removed one of them, then you could own it. The gun still sent hot lead down range. Now, they say if it looks military, then it's an "assault rifle". That's just stupid. If I glued 2 magazines together, butt to butt, from a 10-22, then what do I have? I have 20 rnds, but it' not a high capacity mag, so it's legal?. I still have 20 rnds though.

They need to start thinking about how to stop crazy people from doing crazy things. My wife, the doctor, sees some crazy shit everyday. Most is spousal abuse and beating a child to a pulp and a family being torn apart, resulting in some child who grows up to be a menace to society. Not every case, but more than 75% ends up this way. But at least the assault rifles are banned now, right? Super. Real good thinking there.
 
^You make good points. I'd like to know if prescribed psychoactive drugs have played a part in these things. They're socially acceptable because they're prescribed. They're not going to report the perpetrators beta blocker level...
 
banded is hoops or circles around something, banned is the word you are looking for, and no one needs banned for their opinion in a disscusion forum thread
 
Murders.....Total.........total guns........non gun.........

Arizona........339.............222...............117........

California....1790...........1220.............. 570...........

Maryland......398.............272................136.....seems the FBI cant count in Maryland

Alaska...........29..............16.................13.......

Montana........18...............7..................11......

Nebraska........65..............42.................23

If you reduce gun related deaths by 50% and increase non gun related deaths by 100%

Arizona........345.............111...............234....increase of ..6 ..deaths

California....1750............610...............1140....decrease....40....."...

Maryland......408.............136...............272.....increase... 10......"....

Alaska...........34...............8.................26.........."...........5....."....

Montana........26............... 4 ................22.....:...."..........8......"...

Nebraska........67..............21.................46....Increase......2......"....

would having more stringent gun controls reduce gun related deaths by 50%............

Would having more stringent gun controls increase non gun related deaths by 100%.............

Would 100% of the deaths by guns happen even if there were no guns........



If the decrease of gun deaths is 100% and the increase of non gun deaths is 100%

California.....1780..............610..............1170....decrease....10..."
In California there is still a decrease of 10 deaths around 6%

Texas is an interesting one
Texas.........I089..............699..............389...........Non gun related deaths are around 37%. Apply the -50/+100%
..."............1128..............350..............778........ Increase of 39 deaths


The killer in the school used handguns, (plural), as well as having rifles. all were automatics and classed as assault weapons, Weapons not rifles

If the debate is about deaths caused by rifles then that percentage of gun deaths is very small............BUT.....the debate isn't about rifles alone

Massachusetts is an interesting one.
.................183..............122.........and out of 122 gun deaths there were 69 where they couldn't identify the type of gun, almost 25%

You can't stop people killing each other, never have and never will. "Drugs alcohol" and 'they are just plain crazy" and saying if they were taken out of the equation then guns would not be a problem is no excuse to have more guns or assault weapons. Hell what is classed as crazy, now that we accept and label mental disorders then every one of us would be classed as having a disorder of some kind, to what degree/Diagnosis of it depends on if we are crazy or not
 
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Skull it would be interesting if you could find out how many of those incidents alcohol was a part of. I think the ratio may change your thinking that it isn't a factor.

I also detect a feeling of malice about our gun laws and gun possesion from "down under". Something which your countries choice to go gun free drives. And I will state isn't only this forum. My son chose AU to get his masters, prodded by academias "you must have diversity' with your education to be successful.
Soon after arriving he found he needed to deny owning guns or having been around them. Too much consternation. The short of it, he was out drinking one night and was too libreal with his opinions. For that he was beaten, booted and left for dead in a ditch.
Now this was just for having an opinion about guns and personal protection.
So it seems to me some folks don't have a problem with killing, just how it is done.
Australias gun laws didn't help him, in fact they almost killed him.
 
A Bushmaster is NOT an fully auto, but a semi-auto. The police said he only used the rifle to kill and had the pistols on him. He had a Sig Sauer, a Glock 10mm and a shotgun (which was in the car). The Bushmaster was used to on his mother, who he shot several times in the head. Mommy problems?

And what is going on right now, today, here in the U.S., is the debate on banning of military style, rifles. A.K.A "Assault Rifles".

My point is that more PISTOLS were used to kill people in 2011 than ASSAULT RIFLES. End of story, period, that's it, those are the numbers, you live there, I live here, we live it, you don't. You can work your numbers magic all you want and theorize until the cows come home. We have politicians and Joe public trying to ban ONE thing. ONE!!!!. Not all guns, but the scary assault rifles. We have tried this before, many times in the past. Trying to get rid of ONE thing is not going to stop the problems we have.

The gun debate will go on and on for years to come. Nothing will get done. They will ban something, then retract it after the term has expired, ect. We get new leaders every 4 years here and thi is how it has always worked.

I'm done arguing about it. Just wait and watch.
 
I have never said alcohol wasn't a factor, i have said you can't use the alcohol related statistics as an excuse to object to gun restrictions. Alcohol is legal so are guns, if the 2 are combined the consequences can be deadly, If you can separate the 2 so they can't be mixed then the gun statistics, ( i am sure), would look a lot better.

How do you do that.

I find this whole thing interesting, some of points and statements raised here were incorrect and have i have pointed them out.. Stepping out side and taking an objective view helps to see things from others point of view, you may not agree with it and i can honestly say i do see things from your side. growing up with the second amendment is held dear to a lot, ( no idea the percentage because that information wouldn't be very reliable, from either side), And the fear of legislation that would water down or restrict you choice or how many or what type of guns allowed is seen to be taking away a basic right.

I have no malice towards your gun laws.

I can't get out of my head the feelings each child would have gone through watching and hearing the screams of others as they waited for their turn to die.
Why does that not raise the question of having assault style weapons available at the corner store and the need for them at home. Have your 6 shot revolver and semi automatic pistol but why the need for more than one.

In NZ they have one of the least gun related deaths in the world and have the most relaxed ownership registrations laws in the word.

Australians, (not all), can be very racist and the redneck attitude is alive and well here. I have had people hate me because i am a Kiwi and for that reason alone and they had never spoken to me and i have had to confront that with physical defense and verbal.
 
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I doubt any good would come of banning assault weapons but coming from someone who sold all of his weapons years ago,I fully support any legislation towards the banning of these sorts of weapons. America's society as whole is just fundamentally fucked-up with gun enthusiast who feel their safer with an assault rifle cuz the government might infringe on their so called precious 2nd amendment rights or their paranoia might be overcome if they're packing a AK,AR,etc.Our nation has the most murderess rate yearly of all nations,so what do you say we raise a beer and prost to that alarming and embarrassing branding of America.
Their hasn't been any conflicts on American soil since the Civil War,so what's all the fuss about? you only have a few more day's left on this planet anyways 12/21/2012:laugh:
 
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I don't own an assault rifle, never did, never will. I think they are actually stupid. Can't hunt with them. I don't hunt anyway. However, I do think people have the right to own what they want. Like a car that does 165mph. Is it useful on regular roads? Maybe if you're 100 yrs old and have a little dick and need some lovin'. But don't tell me that outlawing a certain gun is going to solve this problem.

As for 12/21/12. When all the people that commit suicide or flip out because the news reported all this "end of the world" crap, just like 2000, then I will be the first to blame them for the deaths. Think I have a chance of winning? Nope, they will blame the human, not the media.
 
Our nation has the most murderess rate yearly of all nations,so what do you say we raise a beer and prost to that alarming and embarrassing branding of America.

Why don't ya look up the numbers instead of spouting crap? 6 countries with far smaller populations than the US have had as many as twice the murders in a year as us, last year. To use your term, Honduras is the most murderess rate of all nations. Mexico, China, and friggin GREENLAND have higher per-capita murder rates than us. 468,000 murders worldwide in 2010, and we had around 10,000? Not bad, I'd say, considering we had over 20,000 less than a generation ago, with a smaller population. Progress.

Just so you don't think I'm being a dick calling you out on spouting bullshit, here the stats are from 2011, although you would find them on page 2 of this thread as well. The US Murder rate has been falling for years. You just watch too much TV. Whatever is sensationalized in the media is what people believe, and it will be the death (or very near to it) of this nation.

http://www.businessinsider.com/1homicidal-countries-2011-11?op=1
 
Why don't ya look up the numbers instead of spouting crap? 6 countries with far smaller populations than the US have had as many as twice the murders in a year as us, last year. To use your term, Honduras is the most murderess rate of all nations. Mexico, China, and friggin GREENLAND have higher per-capita murder rates than us. 468,000 murders worldwide in 2010, and we had around 10,000? Not bad, I'd say, considering we had over 20,000 less than a generation ago, with a smaller population. Progress.

Just so you don't think I'm being a dick calling you out on spouting bullshit, here the stats are from 2011, although you would find them on page 2 of this thread as well. The US Murder rate has been falling for years. You just watch too much TV. Whatever is sensationalized in the media is what people believe, and it will be the death (or very near to it) of this nation.

http://www.businessinsider.com/1homicidal-countries-2011-11?op=1


Well Dick ,instead of you spouting your BullShit,you should of FACT CHECKED yourself as for Honduras murder statics for the year 2010,the US had more than double the homicides by 14K + and 6k+ for Honduras. Me watch TV:laugh: you don't know jack-Shitz how I occupy myself,so don't ever pre-judge me again Bud\And as for the murder rates declining yearly,those statistics don't even include the eluded murders that'll never get booked.

There needs to be a change in America to protect our innocent children and adults from being slaughtered like bigs in out schools and public places and hopefully both parties in congress will come to a unification,along with the States enforcing stricter purchasing laws and to the private sector who try to hide under the radar.
 
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I gave you the link for 2011. The only thing I mentioned for 2010 was the worldwide total, because I could not find the number for 2011. DICK.

You're still full of shit on the US having the most "murderess" (which is a woman who has murdered someone) rate of all nations. Maybe you should put down the beer and read, and learn to write a sentence instead of watching CNN.

Well, since you edited yours, I'll edit mine to respond. Those numbers are for Homicide, not just murder. Homicide is when one human kills another one, regardless of motive, weapon, or if anyone was captured or convicted. I have BEEN to Honduras, Guatemala, Columbia, and Venezuela in the last 5 years, and I can tell you that what happens is, they walk up to your car stopped in traffic, break out your window if it's rolled up, and jack your throat with a fruit knife as they drag your dying ass through the window and leave you in the street to bleed to death, after they sweep your pockets. They drop concrete blocks on crowds of teenagers and cave thier heads in to steal thier cell phones and shoes. They kidnap young women and have "rape parties" where they rape, brutalize and torture the woman, then they throw her off a building. When people are evil, they will find ways to kill, injure, and maim. The core of the problem is our degenerative society, not a particular tool.
 
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Idiots in charge can't even stop humans from crossing a river or 1 ton shipments of cocaine coming in on an old truck...everyday or so.

Like drugs, guns are an addiction of fear which adds up to "LOTS OF MONEY AT STACK" so do they really want to stop production? I think not.
 
Philosophically it comes down to this. The sovereign has the power. The power is the gun. In the U.S. each individual citizen is supposed to be sovereign. For generations people have died defending that philosophy, very few of them actually choosing to I suppose.
 
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