TCI Replacement 2020 It Works

Team Junk said:
Color me wrong. I had looked at the 500 thumper boxes (I own several now XT and a SRX) but did not know about the E model having CDI. That's 2 years before the XS650 was equipped with E Ignition. I guess this low-hi pickup thing was the only way Hitachi could do it.

Actuality 70 pounds (~$90-$100 225CDN - 500CDN is not a bad deal for a somewhat proper CDI for the 500.

Remember the CDI ignition coil is too low of an impedance to work reliably with the Gonzo Box so that cost also has to be taken into account.
On the other hand a cross species Gonzo transplant would be cool.
Click to expand...

With shipping from the UK it's $145. Still not bad compared to the prices being charged for used CDIs. When I started this adventure I wanted to see if my "parts bike" would run. The success that the GY6 ignition enjoyed being adapted to other machines got me curious and at under $20 I figured it was worth a shot. In that respect the experiment was a success. The bike's motor seems to be in sound condition and I have a cheap, functional ignition system, albeit with a two step advance instead of a curve. Then I heard about your experiences with the Gonzo ignition. My curiosity was piqued. I now have all the necessary parts, including a suitable coil, assembled and hope to get it installed by spring. I'm having a good time playing with this old junker and so far I have less than half the cost of the proper CDI invested in both systems. Win-win in my book.
 
Interesting stuff here.

Looks like the timing on the 550-600 Yamaha thumpers is 12 degrees at idle and 36 full advance. Pretty close to what we are seeing on the Gonzo.

s-l500.jpg
 
View attachment 182326

The spacing is unknown. Working out who many degrees between the center and outer pickups.

I think it could be switched from cranking advance to normal (center pickup) by the yellow stator wire through a relay (or two).

The optional really Gonzo gone totally mad advance pickup could be crudely controlled by a vacuum switch or a analog circuit with a solid state air vacuum sensor.
 
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@Port posted this photo of his setup.




If you are like me and have no thought of going back to the stock tci then this is the cleanest install. Remove the pins from the wiring loom side of the TCI box connector and then directly connect to the gonzo like this. Don't overlook the black ground wire behind the orange wire. Be sure to determine the polarity of the Gonzo Box to the pickups before putting the pickup pins in the 6 pin connector.

upload_2021-1-12_13-9-17.png
 
I looked at a mid 80's gpz wiring diagram and it looks like the pulsar coils have 4 wires coming from then so odds are it has wire coils not hall effect sensors so should work. ymnv. If the manual has a ohm rating for the pickup then it's wire coils in the pickup.

It's kinda ironic you should mention the gpz because I think that was the bike that virtually all of them had the "igniter" box fail and there were dead bikes at all the Houston Kawasaki dealers waiting on igniters from Japan.

That's when I first started looking at tci's and how they worked.
 
mike in idaho said:
How about mounting the gonzo alternator/flywheel on the XS?, that way the ignition trigger would be in place. Assuming,of course, the taper on the crankshaft is compatible.
Click to expand...

I think the GN uses the inside out approach to flywheel- stator mounting. The flywheel is mounted backwards and the stator is mounted to the cover. Would be starting from scratch on mounting etc.

The banshee conversion is much cleaner and cheaper.
 
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Team Junk said:
I looked at a mid 80's gpz wiring diagram and it looks like the pulsar coils have 4 wires coming from then so odds are it has wire coils not hall effect sensors so should work. ymnv. If the manual has a ohm rating for the pickup then it's wire coils in the pickup.

It's kinda ironic you should mention the gpz because I think that was the bike that virtually all of them had the "igniter" box fail and there were dead bikes at all the Houston Kawasaki dealers waiting on igniters from Japan.

That's when I first started looking at tci's and how they worked.
Click to expand...
I'm almost sure both GPZ and regular KZ 4 cylinder models used the same system. Maybe not the same igniter.
As for the 4 wires, it's 2 per pickup and 2 boxes would be needed. Even if it is not a Hall effect, some sort of signal is generated, a pulse of sorts.
If the gonzo boxes cannot be used, there are other aftermarket kits and a member rigged up a few systems using GM ignition boxes.
 
The non hall effect sensors are a good thing. The gonzo has worked with 3 totally different wire coil pickups I have tried so I expect the kz- gpz pickups will work fine.

A friend in the same pits with us at Daytona was running what I think was one of the first GPZ 750s. That thing was scarry fast and had the best brakes I'd seen up til that time. If I remember correctly. he placed pretty high maybe even in the top 10
 
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I happened across a photo of a RX135 magneto and the timing pickup is not the same as the pickups from ebay.
I just bought 2 more and had forgotten the box is labeled Yamaha Blaster. So I looked around and found a photo of the blaster magneto. Turns out the pickup is inside of the flywheel
It looks to me like the pickup is pointing at the inside shaft mounting instead of the rim. Not sure what it senses.
 

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If the magnet is on the collar of the flywheel that is a much smaller diameter orbit and would be traveling at a much slower speed past the pickup than the stock TCI magnet and pickup so would generate a lower power pulse. Perhaps why the high output of the "RX" nee Blaster pickup is higher.
 
For those that have a race bike here you go.
Racing Modified CDI For SUZUKI GN250 Loncin 300 ATV-300 CDI Digital lgnition
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1938223087...jagV_lmRNxJuujN0CdxjFOwrV5DGf4XxoCNmQQAvD_BwE


Loncin 300
After quick look at some photos the loncin looks very similar to the GN250. I think that is why there are so many gonzo boxes for sale cheap.

Not quiet sure what they are trying to say here but did notice mention of sub 200 rpm setting which I've noticed playing with the Gonzo. At cranking rpm I think the box retards slightly below the idle advance. And the Gonzo doesn't output a voltage , It grounds the coil so I don't know what the 180V spec is about. It's in the neighborhood for a CDI coil primary voltage.

I suspect these are the specs for a two stroke CDI.



Technical Requirements: (Modifier Reference)
1. low speed: ≤ 200r/min
2. start into the angle: 3000r/min
3. 2%d time: 3200r/min%p200r/min
4. 4%d time: 5100r/min%p200r/min
5. 10%d time: 6800r/min%p200r/min
6. Stop angle 13%d time: 9200r/min%p200r/min

7. 8000r/min: Output voltage: 180V


 
Team Junk said:
....of sub 200 rpm setting which I've noticed playing with the Gonzo. At cranking rpm I think the box retards slightly below the idle advance.
Click to expand...
I've suspected this was happening. In order to get to 35° advance on my SG, I wound up at about 18-19 advance at idle.... Yet I get no kickback when cranking. I'm curious, have you seen this extra retard at cranking speed?
 
Yes I have on the Gonzo dyno. when it first starts and as it spins down it seems to retard a bit.We have a nice batch of weather for the next 72 hours or so . I just rode the R3 to the mini mart and it was lovely. I'm trying to get the bench cleared of off so I can get the Gonzo dyno up and running again. I plan to experiment with a few components and do some durability tests.
 
Team Junk said:
Yes I have on the Gonzo dyno. when it first starts and as it spins down it seems to retard a bit.We have a nice batch of weather for the next 72 hours or so . I just rode the R3 to the mini mart and it was lovely. I'm trying to get the bench cleared of off so I can get the Gonzo dyno up and running again. I plan to experiment with a few components and do some durability tests.
Click to expand...
Let us know if you can get a firm number on the cranking retard?
 
Found this. Makes more sense. I love that they put a flag on a Chinese product. $100 for complete charging and ignition systems.
loncin dynomsmi.jpg
 

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