zebtok
XS650 Member
I was planing on going with battery instead of a capacitor and running it all through a fuse box also probably more along the lines of this one.
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some wiring diagrams
- Thread starter inxs
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- diagram electrical wiring
In your pics you show an engine with points.You also swow a wiring harness with a TCI box.
In the diagrams you show you have a Pamco ignition and a PMA.
What you need to decide is what ignition and alternator you want to use.
The stock pints can be used with a PMA. A pamco is an easy upgrade from points.
The stock TCI can not be used with a PMA. It needs the magnet in the stock alternators rotor and the pick ups on the stock stator.
In the 'Some wiring Diagrams " thread look for a diagram that uses the parts you have. I like #4 it shows a simple diagram with points and stock 70-79 alternator with reg and rec. It has boxes that you swap to upgrade to the later TCI and reg/rec set up.
To add a Pamco just hook it in after the engine stop switch.
To wire in a PMA just follow the directions that comes with the one from Hugh's Hand Built.
Leo
In the diagrams you show you have a Pamco ignition and a PMA.
What you need to decide is what ignition and alternator you want to use.
The stock pints can be used with a PMA. A pamco is an easy upgrade from points.
The stock TCI can not be used with a PMA. It needs the magnet in the stock alternators rotor and the pick ups on the stock stator.
In the 'Some wiring Diagrams " thread look for a diagram that uses the parts you have. I like #4 it shows a simple diagram with points and stock 70-79 alternator with reg and rec. It has boxes that you swap to upgrade to the later TCI and reg/rec set up.
To add a Pamco just hook it in after the engine stop switch.
To wire in a PMA just follow the directions that comes with the one from Hugh's Hand Built.
Leo
zebtok
XS650 Member
thanks xsleo still trying to wrap my head around how everything work electrical wise
zebtok
XS650 Member
will the regulator/rectifier I have work with points? Or do i need to get a different one?
jayel
#9 Guru 74 TX650A
Apples and Oranges... separate systems, a mechanicical regulator will work with a mechanical ignition (points) or a electronic ignition system or vise-versa
Ok, as Jayel said, the points are ignition, the reg and rec is charging. Two different systems.
Electrically the only way they come together is the charging system keeps the battery charged so the ignition has a power source to work.
Now physically, they do somewhat connect because the reg uses the brushes on the stator to control the current flow through the rotor. This controls the alternators output to keep the battery charged.
On the points models one brush is grounded. Power to the hot brush comes from the reg.
On the TCI models no brushes are grounded. Power comes from the brown wire, through the brushes out to the reg where the reg grounds to control the current flow.
Now looking at your brushes, does one look like this pic? And does your stator look like this pic?
If so your stator and brushes are the early type, used with points.
Leo
Electrically the only way they come together is the charging system keeps the battery charged so the ignition has a power source to work.
Now physically, they do somewhat connect because the reg uses the brushes on the stator to control the current flow through the rotor. This controls the alternators output to keep the battery charged.
On the points models one brush is grounded. Power to the hot brush comes from the reg.
On the TCI models no brushes are grounded. Power comes from the brown wire, through the brushes out to the reg where the reg grounds to control the current flow.
Now looking at your brushes, does one look like this pic? And does your stator look like this pic?
If so your stator and brushes are the early type, used with points.
Leo
Attachments
If your stator is the early type you can use the combo reg/rec from your pic, but you need to rewire at the brushes and do the three nylon screws.
If your stator is the later type then it will just plug into that harness. Work fine.
You can use points with either the early or later charging systems, the TCI needs the pickups and the older stators have no provision for the pickups. If you have a choise, use the later type charginging system, use which ever ignition you have.
The points engine is an easier swap to the Pamco, you just swap the Pamco for the points. On the TCI engines you need to add the bushings to the cam then put in the advancer rod and advancer. Not hard to but just takes more to do.
Leo
If your stator is the later type then it will just plug into that harness. Work fine.
You can use points with either the early or later charging systems, the TCI needs the pickups and the older stators have no provision for the pickups. If you have a choise, use the later type charginging system, use which ever ignition you have.
The points engine is an easier swap to the Pamco, you just swap the Pamco for the points. On the TCI engines you need to add the bushings to the cam then put in the advancer rod and advancer. Not hard to but just takes more to do.
Leo
Is it safe to assume that Hugh's PMA system is grounded simply by being installed on the engine? I.e. the nut that holds the flywheel onto the crankshaft is grounding it?
Obviously you cannot run a wire because the flywheel is spinning, so it would only make sense.
Logan
Obviously you cannot run a wire because the flywheel is spinning, so it would only make sense.
Logan
The PMA flywheel is not grounded. It has no electricity flowing in it, so no ground is needed. The stator is a set of three windings connected at a central point with three outputs. These windings are not grounded to the body of the stator.
The same applies to the stock system. The rotors are not grounded. The early seperate reg and rec models used a grounded brush, but had ground back into the harness on the black wire. They are phsically mounted to the engine and any short circuit will go to ground through the bodies. But this groundung is not needed to get the systems to work.
Leo
The same applies to the stock system. The rotors are not grounded. The early seperate reg and rec models used a grounded brush, but had ground back into the harness on the black wire. They are phsically mounted to the engine and any short circuit will go to ground through the bodies. But this groundung is not needed to get the systems to work.
Leo
zebtok
XS650 Member
its like the first one ( the old style) so what all do I have to rewire on it other than the nylon screws? would it be easier to just pull the separate rectifier and regulator off the other one?
Where the wire bundle comes up from the stator you will find a big plug. It has 6 wires in it. Three whites, a green and a black and a sky blue. The sky blue Is for the neutral light. Don't worry about it for now.
The plug in your harness that the stator plug plugs into has the 3 whites, a green and a brown and the sky blue. You have to do some rearranging of the wires. The three whites to the three whites. The green to the green. Now is where the important wires are changed. The black wire from the stator gets hooked into the brown wire from the harness.
This rewire sends battery power TO the brushes on the brown wire that gets hooked to the black wire. Then this power flows through the brushes, rotor and out on the green wire TO the reg/rec. The reg/rec then grounds the green wire to get the alternator to put out power.
This is why you need the three nylon screws. The black wire brush is grounded to the stator housing with the three metal screws. The nylon screws prevent this.
I wouldn't use much of what's in the stock harness in your pic. I would strip that harness apart. Use just the wires you need to wire the bike as in the Diagram #4 I mentioned earlier.
Leo
The plug in your harness that the stator plug plugs into has the 3 whites, a green and a brown and the sky blue. You have to do some rearranging of the wires. The three whites to the three whites. The green to the green. Now is where the important wires are changed. The black wire from the stator gets hooked into the brown wire from the harness.
This rewire sends battery power TO the brushes on the brown wire that gets hooked to the black wire. Then this power flows through the brushes, rotor and out on the green wire TO the reg/rec. The reg/rec then grounds the green wire to get the alternator to put out power.
This is why you need the three nylon screws. The black wire brush is grounded to the stator housing with the three metal screws. The nylon screws prevent this.
I wouldn't use much of what's in the stock harness in your pic. I would strip that harness apart. Use just the wires you need to wire the bike as in the Diagram #4 I mentioned earlier.
Leo
zebtok
XS650 Member
thanks xsleo I was planing on just pulling the components off and getting all new wires for everything else
xschumper
XS650 New Member
Anyone running a boyer high output electronic ignition with a pma? If so how'd you wire it up- thanks!
ducktoo1
XS650 Enthusiast
Two separate systems. The ignition runs off the battery (or the Capacitor if no battery is used). Wire it to the battery and it will work as advertised.
xschumper, find any diagram that has the PMA as the charging system. In most of these, power goes to an engine stop switch. Just wire the Boyer in after this engine stop switch, Just as the ignition thats in the diagram.
Leo
Leo
cobrasneverdie
el guapo
relevant to my interest
Halloweenie
Bearded Banjo Brawler
I have been studying the various wiring diagrams for a while now, and I know upon which I will base my harness; however, I have a singular and somewhat oddball question.
Now this might sound really stupid, but here we go. Can I run one large gauge wire, like a 10g or even a 7mm spark plug wire, from the negative battery/capacitor terminal to something like the headlight's ground wire, and connect all of what would normally be chassis ground wires or indeed, all of the ground wires, to it?
I'm thinking something along the lines of a central nervous system, with a thick spinal column, to which all of the thinner peripheral nerves attach. That way I can avoid chassis grounds entirely and avoid having a bundle of wires attached to the negative terminal, as well as reducing the length of the necessary ground wires, since they would only have to go as far as the closest part of the "spine".
Is there an actual term for this? Is it even possible, or am I misunderstanding a fundamental law of electrical systems?
Now this might sound really stupid, but here we go. Can I run one large gauge wire, like a 10g or even a 7mm spark plug wire, from the negative battery/capacitor terminal to something like the headlight's ground wire, and connect all of what would normally be chassis ground wires or indeed, all of the ground wires, to it?
I'm thinking something along the lines of a central nervous system, with a thick spinal column, to which all of the thinner peripheral nerves attach. That way I can avoid chassis grounds entirely and avoid having a bundle of wires attached to the negative terminal, as well as reducing the length of the necessary ground wires, since they would only have to go as far as the closest part of the "spine".
Is there an actual term for this? Is it even possible, or am I misunderstanding a fundamental law of electrical systems?
missile150
XS650 Addict
I have thought about this too. I don't see why not, as long as the main wire is grounded. It would be similar to daisy chaining them.
ducktoo1
XS650 Enthusiast
Why bother? The frame is a ground. You can add a ground connection with a drill, and self taping screw anywhere along the frame. Of course it wouldn't hurt to add a wire, but seems like a duplication of effort to me.
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