Don't you hate THE FONG BROS?

Where it that what I make isn't what I consciously believe? As I originally said to you xjwmx, I don't think you understand where my opening comments for this post came from. In the past, there was a sort of blow up on 650rider over a bike my partner had for sale. Without having any facts, people were typing that we were fleecing the public, trying to sell a poorly built bike, and other such nonsense. When I started this post, I was writing tongue in cheek toward the people who were so stubborn to understand anything other than what they had already preconceived as fact. I honestly do not hate my work. I happen to like it. When I look back, I cringe about some things I've done, but my taste and desired outcome changes like the wind. So what I make at the time is what I like at the time. I like this bike very much - for now.

I think a moderator should clean this thread up, because it is detracting from the beauty of this beast.


The bike is gorgeous Mr. and Mr. Fong.

Pearls before swine, Brother Fong, pearls before swine...

One of the cleanest, lightest, classiest chops I've seen in a while. With the attention paid to the aesthetics of this scoot, I have no doubt it runs as smooth as an XS can. Stick with your vision, it's definitely working.

Mostly a matter of personal preference.

Just as I am giving mine.

One thing he certainly has right is that you should be grateful to all of the people chopping up XS650s. It's the popularity of this bike as a chop that gives your bike increased value, but as soon as the trend is over, the value will decrease, because the truth is that this bike really isn't anything all that special. It was a solid design in it's day, but it's day has long past. It was just another in a long series of dependable Japanese motorcycles, and there are so many of those it's ridiculous.

This bike's functionality is mediocre at best. It takes numerous modifications and constant tinkering to keep it running decently. By today's standards it is slow, handles poorly and rides poorly. At 70+ mph it vibrates bad enough that your hands go numb. Not exactly a major engineering victory.

Enthusiast forums exist for the Kawasaki KZ, the Honda CB, the Suzuki GS and on and on, because they are all solid, dependable motorcycles. The in-line four is a better design. They perform better without that ridiculous vibration.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that people are chopping this bike because it is oh so special. It's being chopped because A.) the engine has some aesthetic value on a chop, B.) because it is an easy frame to chop for a first-timer, and C.) they're cheap.

Many of the other Japanese bikes from that era have design issues that are challenging for making a chop, such as a dual backbone or shaft drive, so not just anyone can chop them, and many people don't like the looks of an in-line four chop (My next project, preferably an XS1100 so I can stretch a shaft-driven in-line four. Still shopping for the next bike though.)

Chopping has always been about aesthetics. Every chop sacrifices function for style. That is the whole purpose of chopping a bike. A chop is, at it's best, a creative expression of the builder. That fact may have escaped the masses who are currently welding on TC Bros hardtails and slapping on Sporty peanut tanks and all sorts of new, shiny, prefabbed parts willy-nilly, but there you have it.

If you don't chop, you don't get it, and you won't ever get it. But it's ok, we're used to it.

Maybe the chopping guys don't really like the bikes they chop then. That would explain a lot!

Interesting thing is you chop a '52 Hydraglde and you're adding function really. No one would do that today, but that's beside the point.

Incidentally a Hydraglide is nothing special intrinsically. Less special than the xs650 in terms of ride, maintenance and the other criteria you lay out. That makes me think it's -all- about perception and mythos.

Therefore it's unfair to single out the xs650 as a poor bike, too much vibration, old design and etc. Hell, go customize an R6. Is that closer to what you want? I don't think so.

Yes, and I'm sure there ever were or are just as many '52 Hydraglides as there were/are '70-'83 xs650s.

xjwmx said:

Maybe the chopping guys don't really like the bikes they chop then. That would explain a lot!

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When I see an XS, I see what it could be, as well as what it is. I would never chop an XS1, but I would chop '79s all frikkin day, until there wasn't another one left, without blinking an eye. That first year was something special... by 1979 meh, not so much.

xjwmx said:

Interesting thing is you chop a '52 Hydraglde and you're adding function really. No one would do that today, but that's beside the point.

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Give me a '52 Hydraglide in the same shape as the current '79 XS I'm chopping (a 75%-missing basket-case) and I would chop that too. No bike is truly safe around someone who loves to chop. NO BIKE.

That aside, do you really understand what chopping is? You couldn't add functionality to a Hydraglide by chopping it. You could bob it and make it faster. I keep looking at this pic...



...and now ALL I can think about is how I would LOVE to chop one. Those fat fuckin' tires with a shorty fender on the back and no fender on the front, raking out the neck and adding some 4 or 6 over forks, losing all the fat and clutter, stripping it down and stretching it out so it's nothing but a seatpan, giant tires and that monstrous panhead... grrrrrr.

xjwmx said:

Incidentally a Hydraglide is nothing special intrinsically. Less special than the xs650 in terms of ride, maintenance and the other criteria you lay out. That makes me think it's -all- about perception and mythos.

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This argument is flawed in that your initial assumption is that I, and everyone like me, have some reverence for bikes like these. I certainly don't. If I owned the bike in the above picture, I wouldn't chop it. I would sell it and fund my next 20+ projects.

xjwmx said:

Therefore it's unfair to single out the xs650 as a poor bike, too much vibration, old design and etc. Hell, go customize an R6. Is that closer to what you want? I don't think so.

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Unfair how? It IS outdated, slow, with too much vibration and not that much comfort. Sell me an R6 in a basket with a good engine and a straight frame and forks for $200.00 and I WILL customize it, gladly! I'd turn it into a crazy frikkin chopped streetfighter.

That being said; I love the XS for what it is; a solid, reliable platform for any number of different styles, whether it is chopper, bobber, cafe, tracker, hill climber, stocker or table saw.

I'll chop ANYTHING if it's cheap and it looks like it would be fun.

right on brother!! chop on. stock sucks!

- imho neither suck - chopping or stock, nor all in between ... as an owner-rider its your choice, your wallet and your back ... i wouldnt chop an original model C vinnie but i would build a chopped-style frame for one so i could swap the motor back and concourse the original
- the XS1 motor sitting in my shed is, without its frame, not original anymore, chop material? why not?-theyre a sweet looking motor

I love the looks of the XS1, and if I came across one that was still all together, I couldn't bring myself to chop it. Then, I'd never have the urge to buy something I wouldn't be willing to chop. All of my projects start as a pile of parts. My current bike is a '79. It was laying in the dirt, covered with a tarp, with bits of t-shirt stuffed in the exhaust and intake ports and the front wheel laying beside it, when I picked it up. Who would have bothered restoring it to stock? A stock enthusiast would have bought it and cannibalized it for parts. And that would have been the end of it.

I do think stock sucks. There is always room for improvement on any production motorcycle. A factory bike is made to appeal to the masses, and to give you middle-of-the-road performance. Whether you're constantly tweaking the engine and carbs to eke out as much fuel economy, longevity, horsepower, reliability or whatever, or you're modifying the frame and tins, it is all about making it your own, suited to your purpose.

With that being said, I respect the stock enthusiasts. They put a lot of time, money and energy into their bikes. Their bikes are cool, just not in the way I prefer. In the end, all of the whining is kind of sad and more than a little funny, because it certainly isn't going to stop the chopping madness!

Do you know any wheels comparable to those Ankront's that are still being made? I really like that look, and want a shouldered tire, but I can't find any Ankront's. Thanks, Mark

- both akront and morad make them still

these folks, Buchanan's, have lots of rims.
http://www.buchananspokes.net/categories/rims.asp

Thanks guys, those recommendations, especially Buchanan's really helped.

Teebs said:

That aside, do you really understand what chopping is? You couldn't add functionality to a Hydraglide by chopping it. You could bob it and make it faster. I keep looking at this pic...

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Forgot this thread till it got dug up just now.

I doubt I understand chopping as well as you, but who knows. I say chopping is making it look like a chopper Doing the hydraglide in your pic would add a passenger seat, eliminate unnecessary weight. Generally get it down to necessities, which is to me is adding functionality, paradoxically; broadening the scope of what it's good for.

But mainly - it's a hard tail already, so you don't have the big net loss of functionality you have when you hard tail a bike with a rear suspension

Yeah, here is your added functionality:



The original Captain America chop started as a '52 Hydra-Glide. Rigid... No sprung seat. No front brake. 12 over forks. LESS functionality. ALL chopper.

That's an American icon. A World icon. If that's not added functionality, then I don't know what is!

If they had removed a rear suspension and left it without one it could never have become such an icon, in my opinion, because it's a mechanical esthetic sucky thing to do to it. Maybe in today's world it could.

Yeah, they are completely devoid of talent. I don't see how such brain dead guys can build such great looking bikes. Accidents do happen, I suppose.

That fong bike needs a short fender. If you slide back 2 inches in the seat that knobby tire would suck you right in. Also, does a dash light count as a brake light?