baldyboy
XS650 Member
Jeez watched a documentary on my lai, now I have done a degree in military history more WW2 knew about this but jeez. Wow calley what a twat
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My lai
- Thread starter baldyboy
- Start date
baldyboy
XS650 Member
By the way this wasn't meant as a go just interested in opinions.
Kingwj
I know nothing, nothing!
We use drones to do the dirty work now. They're also useful for spying on domestic targets.
jd750ace
Front Toward Enemy
Lt. Calley took the rap, but there was a lot of what the Germans referred to as "blind obedience" that day. His company commander had a better lawyer at his court marshall. (the famous, and dead, F. Lee Bailey) Having spent some time with people who had a lot harder run in the service than I did, I can't say I don't understand how it happened.
I done a book report in high school on My Lai 4 by Seymour Hersch, the reporter that broke the story to the world. Calley was wrong on a number of counts, and was ordered to clean the village out. Given lots of bad intelligence about what was there, and there was artillery and gunship strikes prior to the troops hitting the ground as well. Many forms of military discipline failed that day.
Here's an article about his first public statements about that day, from a speech made in 2009.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2009/08/21/813820/william-calley-apologizes-for.html
I done a book report in high school on My Lai 4 by Seymour Hersch, the reporter that broke the story to the world. Calley was wrong on a number of counts, and was ordered to clean the village out. Given lots of bad intelligence about what was there, and there was artillery and gunship strikes prior to the troops hitting the ground as well. Many forms of military discipline failed that day.
Here's an article about his first public statements about that day, from a speech made in 2009.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2009/08/21/813820/william-calley-apologizes-for.html
baldyboy
XS650 Member
And today is world holocaust day. I think this was impactful due to it really being the first televised war combined with it being so devisive in the US and around the world. We in the UK don't fare any better having invented concentration camps in the Boer war. And as you say are we any better now with drones LGB , Iraq , Afghanistan always has and always will be what is euphemistically called collateral damage. Or innocents being killed.
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
"Just following orders " . It would be a better world if people would just stop doing that. I never once followed an order in my entire life .
jd750ace
Front Toward Enemy
Just following orders serves a higher purpose better than independent thought, but if you are a conscript, the higher purpose is not what brought you to the field of war.
Without organization and higher purpose (societal preservation) anarchy is the only thing left. I'm not a fan.
Does not intend to justify in any way what would be considered murder anywhere on the face of God's earth. If you have a soul, you should know when to say NO.
Due in no small part to a lack of a religious society, personal morals are at an all-time low for the industrialized human race. The decline of western civilization continues. Let all these soul-less individuals be united under a common cause, and brutality the likes of which we have not seen since the dark ages will emerge. For whatever reason, we are a destructive species, to ourselves and our kind.
Without organization and higher purpose (societal preservation) anarchy is the only thing left. I'm not a fan.
Does not intend to justify in any way what would be considered murder anywhere on the face of God's earth. If you have a soul, you should know when to say NO.
Due in no small part to a lack of a religious society, personal morals are at an all-time low for the industrialized human race. The decline of western civilization continues. Let all these soul-less individuals be united under a common cause, and brutality the likes of which we have not seen since the dark ages will emerge. For whatever reason, we are a destructive species, to ourselves and our kind.
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
No politics, NO religion . What part of "no " don't you understand ? But seeing how you brought it up , just how do you come to the conclusion that people who are not superstitious and do not worship some imaginary sky fairy are morally inferior to those who do ? I blame the decline of western civilization on the followers , the mindless sheep. Religion was responsible for the dark ages , free thinkers lifted humanity out of the dark ages. You have much in common with the Taliban.
jd750ace
Front Toward Enemy
Have not found anybody to fight with lately there mr. 1 percenter?
Are you a moderator? I was not discussing it, I merely mentioned it.
Where exactly does one receive lessons in morality from?
I know you can answer this question without taking another shot at me, which you still don't know a fucking thing about, but insist on characterizing in as derogitory a manner as possible.
This began as a discussion of My Lai 4. If you know nothing of it, I can reccomend a book. A Taliban type wouldn't do that.
Are you a moderator? I was not discussing it, I merely mentioned it.
Where exactly does one receive lessons in morality from?
I know you can answer this question without taking another shot at me, which you still don't know a fucking thing about, but insist on characterizing in as derogitory a manner as possible.
This began as a discussion of My Lai 4. If you know nothing of it, I can reccomend a book. A Taliban type wouldn't do that.
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
Taliban types get all their morals from a book . As for My Lai , just like I said , the same types that get their morals from a book full of ancient superstition and fables are the same types that "just follow orders " and commit atrocities .
jd750ace
Front Toward Enemy
And where is it that your morals come from, assuming you have any?
You don't believe in politics that you don't agree wtih, laws that apply to you, religion that may make you feel morally culpable, taking orders (don't license the vehicle or pay taxes? BULLSHIT), or the long term effects of narcotic use.
WAIT! ARE YOU DIANE FIENSTIEN?
You don't believe in politics that you don't agree wtih, laws that apply to you, religion that may make you feel morally culpable, taking orders (don't license the vehicle or pay taxes? BULLSHIT), or the long term effects of narcotic use.
WAIT! ARE YOU DIANE FIENSTIEN?
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
jd750, what makes you think my original comment that I posted had anything to do with you ? My post was a response to baldyboy . And you wonder why I call you paranoid ? I know I have probably said it before but jd750, you are certifiable .
Gosh, this thread devolved into name calling and chest thumping.
Imagine my surprise...
Imagine my surprise...
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
I know , I should just ignore jd750, *but* ..... he does have a habit of going right off the deep end on comments that had nothing to do with him personally , then using that as an excuse to turn the topic to politics and religion . Not the first time he has done this .. probably not the last either . I bet you he has to clean the spit off his monitor once in a while ........
baldyboy
XS650 Member
Not the response I was hoping for. Wanted an honest appraisal from us citizens and more importantly from vets . I. Respect all forces that have served irrespective of religion creed or religious beliefs. My dad was in the army my Grampy was 10 yrs in the army 5 yrs in the RAF. Me I'm a psychologist n copper of child sex offenders. Just wanted an honest appraisal of what it was like. My brother in law served in the Falklands my brother was there too. Apologise if I have introduced politics or religion . My hats off to you that did n those that respect those that did. Cheers guys Tim .
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
No, you didn't start anything . Being that it is world Holocost day it is a good time to wonder how that sort of thing happens. I gave my opinion . I also have many veterans in my family , my Grandfather was in some of the worst battles in the second world war . I also had a cousin that fought in Vietnam ,even though he was a Canadian and just living in the US. Got a good friend who was a kid ( he is 82 now ) that lived through the Nazi occupation of Holland .
jd750ace
Front Toward Enemy
That's exactly what I gave.
Scrambled then decided to make it about him being a self percieved 1%er that don't follow no rules.
Quote: jd750, what makes you think my original comment that I posted had anything to do with you ?
The reason I think you responded to ME, Scrambled, is I was the one who brought up blind obedience. As a matter of FACT, I'm the first and only respondent who directly addressed the original subject, and I obviously addressed it from the viewpoint that was sought.
As to Scrambled:
He is a Canadian, and as far as I know has never voluntarily picked up arms to defend his liberty or way of life, or as a conscript.
Quote: he does have a habit of going right off the deep end on comments that had nothing to do with him personally , then using that as an excuse to turn the topic to politics and religion
If you think going into the world carrying a rifle, and knowing your ultimate purpose is to impose your will upon other people, does not involve personal politics, religion, and morals, then you're just a stupid bastard. There are no "free thinkers" in the military. It's not the place.
I'm sure Scrambled is attempting to use enough phrases and words to get me on the DHS's POI list. He just can't stand that people still exist like me. It chaps his ass to the bone. He likes to call me paranoid, but he's the dope smoker. (see other threads in this section) I'm not a name caller, he admits it.
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
I never HAD to fight in a war , and neither have you. Not since WWII has there been a war that would threaten your freedom. Canada has an army , if there was a war worth fighting I would have been in it .
What is a DHS POI list ?
What is a DHS POI list ?
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baldyboy
XS650 Member
Guys surely we have enough about us to not to argue. Man hate is shit. I named my son Jacob I have a Hebrew tattoo to celebrate his life it's shite we fight on line or person to person. Hate is so negative . I respect my past but my future is great. We are divided by a common language but joined together by a common sense of decency . Cheers guys. Tim
Scrambled
Motorcycle Man
I know , I wasn't trying to get into a pissing match either . And my comment about "just following orders " was in response to the fact that you mentioned it was world holocaust day . The fact that soldiers still use that lame excuse is disgusting .
