British XS650'ers

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

Those statistics aren't really representative or a correct comparison and there are a number of mistakes throughout i.e. Drug offence numbers. They are also made ad hoc.

You can't just slap data against one another as a comparison, for starters it should be murders per 100,000 on each side. Also what categorises assault in the UK is a little different to what it does in the States, assault in the UK can be categorised as something as mild as a woman having her hand bag stolen.

I'm not saying the UK doesn't have problems. The only thing we need to fix in the UK are the very lax laws for crimes and an unarmed police force, introducing guns for everyone would be a disaster as the US has proved.

Pat D · Oct 17, 2013

Story rolled around the news wires a few weeks back, 2 guys had some sort of disagreement on the road, maybe road rage, who knows, but they pulled over to discuss the issue, both had concealed carry permits, and as things got heated they proceeded to shoot each other dead in front of their families. That is the kind of freedom the rest of the world envies us for. The freedom to be so outraged by a discourteous act on the road that lethal force is necessary. I'm sure both of these guys felt they were defending their families from an attack, and it worked. The families are safe and sound. The system works. This post is not a statement about gun ownership, it's a statement about culture and attitude.

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

We have an average of 200 murders by knife crimes a year and 99% of those are from assault, stealing a grannies hand bag is also assault so not comparable but categorised with the same crime in addition to murder.

So our total knife and gun crime yearly causes around 230 fatalities, against a whopping 11,000 just from gun crime in the US. Multiply that by 5 to get a correct ratio of roughly 1150 : 11000, that means there are roughly 11 times more murders from gun crime alone in the US than gun crime and knife crime put together in the UK, an astronomical difference.

Story rolled around the news wires a few weeks back, 2 guys had some sort of disagreement on the road, maybe road rage, who knows, but they pulled over to discuss the issue, both had concealed carry permits, and as things got heated they proceeded to shoot each other dead in front of their families. That is the kind of freedom the rest of the world envies us for. The freedom to be so outraged by a discourteous act on the road that lethal force is necessary. I'm sure both of these guys felt they were defending their families from an attack, and it worked. The families are safe and sound. The system works. This post is not a statement about gun ownership, it's a statement about culture and attitude.

Precisely..

Rush2112 · Oct 17, 2013

acebars said:
Hate to say it but for an outsider you guys are crazy about guns, its a national religion.

Why do you need military grade assault rifles? Except if you wanted to go into a school and mow a load of children down?? It's called tyranny you moron!

And it's nonsense to quote the 2nd amendment or defence, as that was written when you only had muskets!

I'm sure i founding fathers were aware of something called advancements in technology.........

How bout the poor chinese during the opium wars when England forced heroin on the uneducated, unarmed citizens of china through the use of war ships..............state of the art technology in the 1800's now it's F=-16 and M16's......

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

I'm sure i founding fathers were aware of something called advancements in technology.........

They were aware of helicopters, jet fighters, nuclear weapons, assault rifles, machine guns, submarines and intercontinental ballistic missiles in 1776? They must have been prescient geniuses..

Perhaps we should arm all American civilians with these against tyranny?

So in the current situation what are you going to do to stop tyranny? Storm the White House with your small arms?

xjwmx · Oct 17, 2013

Pat D said:
This post is not a statement about gun ownership, it's a statement about culture and attitude.

It's not a statement about culture and attitude either. It's a statement about two lamers on the side of the road. Likely a statement about side effects of prescription medication too

xjwmx · Oct 17, 2013

acebars said:
You can't just slap data against one another as a comparison, for starters it should be murders per 100,000 on each side.

Since the numbers are bigger for the U.K., I'm sure they're normalized for population! You've run out of argument. Concede the match like a man.

xjwmx · Oct 17, 2013

acebars said:
They must have been prescient geniuses..

In the U.K. they're even still thought of as the enemy. I've always thought that was interesting. There was even in those days an arms disparity, to address that thought. Sheer numbers of muskets for one thing.

One thing you might not get is the gun makes the rules. The instrument of the sovereign. In the U.S. the individual is considered sovereign.

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

Since the numbers are bigger for the U.K., I'm sure they're normalized for population! You've run out of argument. Concede the match like a man.

You can't just ignore what I've written and then try to claim victory, that's a very unintelligent argument.

I think I illustrated quite nicely in my previous post that according to that dubious data on that site you presented there are more non-lethal assaults (by percentage) in the UK than the US but that deaths by gun crime occurs 11 times more often than both gun crime and knife crime in the UK combined.

I'd say that's a pretty resounding victory for not having high powered military grade equipment available to the public.

Arming the British public with military grade weaponry would be the most moronic thing one could do..

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

In the U.K. they're even still thought of as the enemy. I've always thought that was interesting. There was even then an arms disparity, to address that thought. Sheer numbers of muskets for one thing.

No in the UK no one cares, it's history, no one says "oooh.. American Independence they're the enemy"..

One thing you might not get is the gun makes the rules. The instrument of the sovereign. In the U.S. the individual has traditionally been considered sovereign. Something different to ponder.

Well that's exactly my point a couple of posts back.

Your civilian small arms are hardly a match for the US government and the US army, with their advanced jet fighters, armored vehicles, ICBMs and nukes.

So what are you going to do to stop tyranny, assault the white house with your small arms?

It's just a ridiculous outmoded notion and belongs in the 19th Century only.

Rush2112 · Oct 17, 2013

acebars said:
They were aware of helicopters, jet fighters, nuclear weapons, assault rifles, machine guns, submarines and intercontinental ballistic missiles in 1776? They must have been prescient geniuses..

Perhaps we should arm all American civilians with these against tyranny?

So in the current situation what are you going to do to stop tyranny? Storm the White House with your small arms?

The second amendment was written for we the people to defend against a tyrannical government!

Not deer hunting...........

Not defending one's home..........

But to defend against a government.......that run a-muk..........trying to enslave a population like a heroin addict that cant get away from a needle. I'm sure those Chinese would have like the option of state of the art weapons when English war ships pointed the muzzle loading cannon and said SMOKE THIS OPIUM YOU SLAVES! LOL

It's really difficult to look deep into one's past?

Rush2112 · Oct 17, 2013

acebars said:
You can't just ignore what I've written and then try to claim victory, that's a very unintelligent argument.

I think I illustrated quite nicely in my previous post that according to that dubious data on that site you presented there are more non-lethal assaults (by percentage) in the UK than the US but that deaths by gun crime occurs 11 times more often than both gun crime and knife crime in the UK combined.

I'd say that's a pretty resounding victory for not having high powered military grade equipment available to the public.

Arming the British public with military grade weaponry would be the most moronic thing one could do..

There is a couple of country's that arm there citizens with military weapons......

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

The second amendment was written for we the people to defend against a tyrannical government!

Not deer hunting...........

Not defending one's home..........

I know it was! My point is how are you going to stop tyrannical government with your small arms when they have nukes, F22s, Abrams tanks, ICBM, cruise missiles, strike drones and the US Army?

I repeat what are you going to do stop tyranny, storm the white house with your small arms?

P.S. Harpers Ferry isn't that where that abolitionist did a guerrilla uprising? Forget his name.

xjwmx · Oct 17, 2013

acebars said:
You can't just ignore what I've written and then try to claim victory, that's a very unintelligent argument.

I didn't ignore what you wrote. I paid careful attention to what you wrote and countered it before I claimed victory.

acebars said:
Arming the British public with military grade weaponry would be the most moronic thing one could do..

I do believe you'd go through a period of the soccer fields being blasted up after games until evolution took its toll and things leveled out

Rush2112 · Oct 17, 2013

quote; "It's just a ridiculous outmoded notion and belongs in the 19th Century only. "

You might be right with this ..................

Except .......it's a DAM GOOD argument when you got a second amendment! That a lot of heroe's of this nation have died for[killing British people at that]!

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

I do believe you'd go through a period of the soccer fields being blasted up after games until evolution took its toll and things leveled out

I think we already had it in the 80s with all the football hooligans

Anyway I'm not here to troll, just the way I see it in todays world, it really doesn't look good for America when you get these mass shootings in schools on the news every few months and I don't get the pro-assault rifle argument it doesn't wash even with the 2nd amendment because you can't enforce it with small arms.

I do wish you guys the best really, the world is a better place if America is strong and not China or some other creeps.

Except .......it's a DAM GOOD argument when you got a second amendment! That a lot of heroe's of this nation have died for[killing British people at that]!

Best argument I've heard so far, at least its frank!

Rush2112 · Oct 17, 2013

acebars said:
I know it was! My point is how are you going to stop tyrannical government with your small arms when they have nukes, F22s, Abrams tanks, ICBM, cruise missiles, strike drones and the US Army?

I repeat what are you going to do stop tyranny, storm the white house with your small arms?

P.S. Harpers Ferry isn't that where that abolitionist did a guerrilla uprising? Forget his name.

Yea John Brown........... They hung his ass! LOL

Shortly there after we go to civil war over slavery and thank god slavery was ended.

Make's my point clear.... John wasn't thinking to clearly when he assaulted Harper's Ferry with a inferior force!

acebars · Oct 17, 2013

I hate to admit it, but the first time I learnt about the American civil war was with "North and South" with Patrick Swayze.

I must have watched that series 20 times, so I knew the basics of the civil war quite well!

Oh and it was the south that fired first on Sumter!!

Rush2112 · Oct 17, 2013

Kill em all!

Rush2112 · Oct 17, 2013

My favorite Metallica album! YEA Anarchy!

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