Starter gear question

mike1968

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Ok.. I have some tough questions. I have a 1982 heritage special that has a crack in the lower front starter gear. It didn't originally leak as much as it is now. Started as a minor leak then after 2 months of driving and fixing other issues: charging system and lighting concerns I am down to oil leak. I have put JB weld on the inside hoping it would stop the leak. I also was able to get ahold of new starter cover, old one is missing a small peice around the crack. I'm assuming after time the vibration caused the front pin, for placement, to break off. I'm not a mechanic so unsure of what to do looking for some experienced answers. I have thought about taking it to a welder in town that has experience in welding aluminum or I also have seen someone take the gears our and plugged up housing. Just uses electric start. I am assuming that the starter gear housing just is for the kick start operation. I wanted to keep everything original. But I have put more money than I was expecting into the motorcycle. I love to ride but also have other expenses. Any ideas on what to try next. I had a beginner mechanic work on it and he feels that the rest of the cycle is good. He has it sounding great. Synced the carbs, I put a new rotor and more into the charging system. Looking at the best route to go. I don't want to sell, but also don't want to keep putting money in and not riding it. I have some pictures if it would help determine.
 
Yes, pics would be good. I'm really not sure what area of the bike you are talking about. You mention both electric and kick starting. Those two are located on completely opposite sides of the bike.
 
Here are some pics of the inside of the housing and the broken piece of the cover. The one shows the JB Weld. I was smoothed out before closing it up.
 

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If the JB does not hold up I have used Permatex black to seal non structural aluminum - exposed to mild heat and oil. If you cleaned the aluminum fanatically the JB should hold up. There shouldnt be stress in that repair area.
 
Unfortunately it still leaks. Not sure if it's from the crack in the gear or the seal from the cover. I have a new cover, but not sure which direction to go. I haven't opened it back up yet to see if any things changed. I figure this is going to be the next step. Possibly in the next week or so.
 
OK I am unclear why it cracked in the first place. A crack there is a new one on me.

These are the electric start gears, remove them and you are kick only.
I'm going to have to go look at a set of cases and see what is affected by that crack being there. My recent find that may help here, is two part automotive plastic bumper epoxy, very strong AND flexible. I am going to guess that stress from the driveline is causing that crack to move around. That means no repair is going to be a forever fix unless it's welded, and straight up a fresh set of cases or motor might be the hot tip compared to a weld in that location.

I can also see the crack going quite a bit further back than the JB weld covers.
 
I have no idea how that could have gotten broken either. My best guess is someone removed all the mounting bolts then beat down on the top edge of the cover to break it free, not realizing there was a locating pin down there.
 
I'm not sure either it was leaking there when I bought the bike this summer. When I got the charging system working I opened it up to see why it was leaking and I found the crack. Thought i would give JB Weld a shot. So now on to see what is best suggestion to fix. Where would you suggest to get a different case? eBay or Craig's list?
 
Took some pics of the area. It's does not appear to be very structural just holds the oil. Maybe V groove the crack so the adhesive is thicker to hold together better?

starter gear case 001.jpg starter gear case 005.jpg starter gear case 007.jpg

Crap it's cold out there tonight right around 0F

I'll guess a "broken off part" got wedged between the case and the gear or a rock from below got the case......
 
Echoing gggGarys comments, get a little Dremel or the like and V the crack out a little just past where you can see it ending. Do this on both sides. Rough the surrounding areas up with sandpaper to promote a better bond. Then clean, clean, clean and clean again. The surfaces need to be spotlessly clean. JB weld should do the trick. I suspect it is still leaking as on the pic, not all the crack is covered.
 
I'd lean towards another (better) shot at sealing the leak Maybe post an XS650 engine wanted ad on your local craigslist see if anything pops up. Sheds are full of old 650's, about any set of cases, say 77 and up should be a suitable donor.
 
Ok. Sounds like a plan. I will break into it this weekend and see what I find. Sounds like adding he mentioned items above might be the trick. I'll make another seal and put the new cover on. Then cross my fingers. Thank you for the ideas.
 
Sorry. It's been cold and the cycle was in the barn. Just took the starter gear housing off and the JB weld is still intact and there doesn't seem to be any more of a crack. But it does look like where the crack was it was uneven where the seal would be. I'm going to take your advice and double the seal and sand the area that is uneven. Then hopefully the leak will be stopped. I will let you know.
 
I do have one question on the starter gear housing wear the shaft sits it looks like there was a washer or some type of round metal. I don't see this in any of the manuals that I have. Anyone have any ideas? Looks like a thin washer, but is wavy.
 
Yes, that pre-loads the gears and takes the play out of the assembly. Yes, you need and want it in there. You can see it here on the end of the stub shaft if you look closely .....

StarterGears2.jpg


..... and it's indicated here in the parts diagram as part #15 .....

StarterGears.jpg


I don't know what manuals you're looking at but it helps to refer to exploded parts diagrams as well. I usually go here .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/parts.html
 
Well got 4 of 6 bolts in. Man it's tough to get the bottom bolts in. Going to work on it again tomorrow afternoon. Really feel good about solving the leak. Will post after I get oil in it. Thanks for the help. I went to the local hardware store and picked up a wavy washer.
 
Looks good so far. I was able to get the cover on and bolts tightened. Since it's cold here decided to put oil in and wait to put outside cover on until tomorrow afternoon to check for any leaks. This evening there still was no signs of leakage. Hopefully it will stay that way. I will finish putting it together tomorrow after work. Then thought I would start her up and let the engine warm up, then double check for leakage. Crossing my fingers. Thanks again for everyone's help.
 
Ok. Looks like I still have a leak, but is less. Now after about a week it went dead. Oil was fine, but seems to have no battery power. I was able to jump it and got home. I am wondering if the mechanic using a live wire in the headlight area to get the headlight working did something to the charging system. Would his change affect the charging system? I'm planning on getting a new wiring harness, but figure I would ride it a bit to make sure I didn't have any other major issues before spending more money. Any ideas?
 
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