Airwolfie
XS650 Guru
That looks ace mate!!
-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
bornleader
XS650 Enthusiast
Looking forward to seeing the new forks fitted!
Cheers Wolfie & leader,
I am spoilt for choice with the USD forks with radial callipers, keep an eye on my post.
Leslie
I am spoilt for choice with the USD forks with radial callipers, keep an eye on my post.
Leslie
nvr2late
XS650 Enthusiast
Can't help thinking, that if you're going to upgrade the front suspension to that extent, then maybe, an equally up to date (ie Monoshock) rear-end might be the way to go.
nvr,
I know what you mean, I think I am on the limit with the aesthetics to achieve my modern classic look every time I modernise part of her.
I think the mono shock option is just a tad to far, as her rear end with the 70s hammerheads and a classic kwaka 80s ali swing arm would I think would compliment the modern USD radial calliper forks.
The R6 forks which I fitted although modern appear not to differ too much from the original XS forks although the twin disc modern callipers do.
The design is fluid as long I don't turn her into a ultra modern street tool.
Leslie
I know what you mean, I think I am on the limit with the aesthetics to achieve my modern classic look every time I modernise part of her.
I think the mono shock option is just a tad to far, as her rear end with the 70s hammerheads and a classic kwaka 80s ali swing arm would I think would compliment the modern USD radial calliper forks.
The R6 forks which I fitted although modern appear not to differ too much from the original XS forks although the twin disc modern callipers do.
The design is fluid as long I don't turn her into a ultra modern street tool.
Leslie
Jeeter
XS650 Addict
Read the entire thread, all 21 pages. Saved every single picture as well. Well done.
In regards to "to USD, or to not USD, that is the question" (er something along those lines). What happened here Les? Did you simply begin changing your preferences over time? (damned humans, so predictable in their unpredictability ... heheh
) It seems you went from supporting the use of the "standard type" hydraulic telescopics of the pre-2001 R6 (and dismissing the R1 USD front end) to pining for the very thing you considered overkill. These things happen, I understand that as well as the next person. However I am just curious about the reason for change of heart. Is it mostly aesthetics or prestige, or is there a performance gain that you wish to exploit?
(below, "Racer" asked you since you were going to all the trouble to hang a set of R6 forks why not go a little further and use a set of inverteds -aka "Upside Down" or "USD". Your reply......).
(above) .... that was quoted from page 4 of this thread I believe. And (below) quoted from this very page.
So are you simply just sick for trick, or is there a believable rationale that you've talked yourself into? If so, you MUST share your secret with your also-sick brothers-in-arms here in the forum. We all know that we have a horrible weak spot for anything two-wheeled with an engine. If you have cracked the code of how to deliver believable rationale that supports our addictions to these two wheeled mistresses, then you OWE it to your brothers to educate us on how to put our minds at ease with our choices to spend $800-odd bones for that big bore kit, or the Terabux spent on those Mikuni round slides and the Cheney fully suspended racing frame that just so happens to cost exactly as much money as we do not have.
So good sir, if you have deciphered the uncrackable code of how to convince ourselves (and our significant others) that we really do need that rephasing kit MORE than we need to pay this month's rent, you most certainly owe it to us all to share your discovery with your suffering and quite sick brothers.
(below) it never ends, does it!
Hey, why not? I mean a few more this-n-thats and you'll have yourself one fine Mule.
Kidding of course. I'm making fun of the fact that those of us inflicted with the same disease can all relate to what you are going through. These projects are never truly "done", are they!
All of this joking around, and we only just met. Seriously Leslie, one very nice piece of workmanship and realization of the vision in your mind's eye. Well done. Great execution of an idea. And it may end up being a nice test bed since you are tip-toeing into commercial fabrication of high performance parts.
However it isn't a tracker, really. It's kinda a set of clubmans away from being a cafe type bike. Which is what Racer meant when he said you were building a "good old US hot rod". It's a great general purpose bike, with nods to naked bikes, streetfighters, street trackers, flat trackers, cafe bikes, motard racers, dirt bikes/crossers, ..... It's part of what makes it unique, it's so non-descript. Which is a great thing in that it has few limits and a broad use scope.
A sortof modern UJM.
If I may spout off on the USD thing for a moment. Unless one is going for a modern look to their 35 year old bike, my own opinion is that the mass-produced mig-welded mild steel tube stock frames these bikes were built on are not anything near a suitable platform for things like USD forks and mono rear ends. I mean the frames are basically boiled noodles compared to the rigidity and engineering strength of these modern components. I'm sortof a follower of Pops Yoshimura, and his philosophies on such things were to retain a high degree of total balance throughout the bike's design. No one part is any stronger than any other one part. Stress and loads are distributed as evenly as possible throughout the space frame. That said, the USD forks and triangulated swingarms of modern designs are not connected to a solid foundation to work from. The frame simply wiggles in between two very stout ends. And keep in mind that these are simply opinions, just the ideas of someone.
Tony Foale is another person that I sortof admire for his ideas on handling, he's another fella that is all about the balance. He's made stock GPZs handle like prototypes by triangulating the frame just above the swingarm pivot and behind the engine. Even with smallish (by today's standards) telescopics up front the bike was still not able to exploit the full potential of the suspension even after the frame had been shored up in a very well thought out manner. I can only imagine how much of the R1 front end's strengths are left on the table with a stock 35 year old mass produced mig welded mild steel tube frame.
On the other hand, USD front ends can look simply amazing on certain builds. So if the choice is based on appearances, it's difficult to argue with the trick-factor of a USD front end.
In the end, it's your bike and you may (and should) do whatever it is you wish with it! Regardless of what over-yakkity goofers like myself say to you!
In regards to "to USD, or to not USD, that is the question" (er something along those lines). What happened here Les? Did you simply begin changing your preferences over time? (damned humans, so predictable in their unpredictability ... heheh
) It seems you went from supporting the use of the "standard type" hydraulic telescopics of the pre-2001 R6 (and dismissing the R1 USD front end) to pining for the very thing you considered overkill. These things happen, I understand that as well as the next person. However I am just curious about the reason for change of heart. Is it mostly aesthetics or prestige, or is there a performance gain that you wish to exploit?(below, "Racer" asked you since you were going to all the trouble to hang a set of R6 forks why not go a little further and use a set of inverteds -aka "Upside Down" or "USD". Your reply......).
Racer Too modern looking, plus I am riding her as a leisure bike Sunday afternoons to Matlock and Tuesday Nights Scarcliffe classic bike meet, and the local racing Cadwell Park Mallory Park and Donnington park.
The upside down forks can be a pain to set up if you get them off a model that is vastly differant to the XS650.
The standard forks with progressive springs are just as good as the upside downies,,,unless you are buying Ohlins and then you need a bank loan
Leslie
(above) .... that was quoted from page 4 of this thread I believe. And (below) quoted from this very page.
So are you simply just sick for trick, or is there a believable rationale that you've talked yourself into? If so, you MUST share your secret with your also-sick brothers-in-arms here in the forum. We all know that we have a horrible weak spot for anything two-wheeled with an engine. If you have cracked the code of how to deliver believable rationale that supports our addictions to these two wheeled mistresses, then you OWE it to your brothers to educate us on how to put our minds at ease with our choices to spend $800-odd bones for that big bore kit, or the Terabux spent on those Mikuni round slides and the Cheney fully suspended racing frame that just so happens to cost exactly as much money as we do not have.
So good sir, if you have deciphered the uncrackable code of how to convince ourselves (and our significant others) that we really do need that rephasing kit MORE than we need to pay this month's rent, you most certainly owe it to us all to share your discovery with your suffering and quite sick brothers.
(below) it never ends, does it!
Hey, why not? I mean a few more this-n-thats and you'll have yourself one fine Mule.
Kidding of course. I'm making fun of the fact that those of us inflicted with the same disease can all relate to what you are going through. These projects are never truly "done", are they!
All of this joking around, and we only just met.
Seriously Leslie, one very nice piece of workmanship and realization of the vision in your mind's eye. Well done. Great execution of an idea. And it may end up being a nice test bed since you are tip-toeing into commercial fabrication of high performance parts.However it isn't a tracker, really. It's kinda a set of clubmans away from being a cafe type bike. Which is what Racer meant when he said you were building a "good old US hot rod". It's a great general purpose bike, with nods to naked bikes, streetfighters, street trackers, flat trackers, cafe bikes, motard racers, dirt bikes/crossers, ..... It's part of what makes it unique, it's so non-descript. Which is a great thing in that it has few limits and a broad use scope.
A sortof modern UJM.
If I may spout off on the USD thing for a moment. Unless one is going for a modern look to their 35 year old bike, my own opinion is that the mass-produced mig-welded mild steel tube stock frames these bikes were built on are not anything near a suitable platform for things like USD forks and mono rear ends. I mean the frames are basically boiled noodles compared to the rigidity and engineering strength of these modern components. I'm sortof a follower of Pops Yoshimura, and his philosophies on such things were to retain a high degree of total balance throughout the bike's design. No one part is any stronger than any other one part. Stress and loads are distributed as evenly as possible throughout the space frame. That said, the USD forks and triangulated swingarms of modern designs are not connected to a solid foundation to work from. The frame simply wiggles in between two very stout ends. And keep in mind that these are simply opinions, just the ideas of someone.
Tony Foale is another person that I sortof admire for his ideas on handling, he's another fella that is all about the balance. He's made stock GPZs handle like prototypes by triangulating the frame just above the swingarm pivot and behind the engine. Even with smallish (by today's standards) telescopics up front the bike was still not able to exploit the full potential of the suspension even after the frame had been shored up in a very well thought out manner. I can only imagine how much of the R1 front end's strengths are left on the table with a stock 35 year old mass produced mig welded mild steel tube frame.
On the other hand, USD front ends can look simply amazing on certain builds. So if the choice is based on appearances, it's difficult to argue with the trick-factor of a USD front end.
In the end, it's your bike and you may (and should) do whatever it is you wish with it! Regardless of what over-yakkity goofers like myself say to you!
Last edited:
Jeeter,
defining a bike is an opinion, and I think racer Dave's "Hot Rod" description is something I can live with and I actually like.
Lads love Bikes and forum's like this forum open up the whole spectrum of design possibilities, my main aim was originally to convert a
XS650 into a sharp track day tool(Café Racer) with an engine upgrade to 750cc + to use on track days here in the UK alongside a modern superbike just for a bit of fun or a good craic.
Then someone suggested I join the XS650 forums I saw Pregrid's and others bike's and though bugger the café racer that's what I want, hence what I have now kind of
The main frame set up is something I have deliberated over for hours when I sourced the basic XS, and realised the tubular frame is in need of serious bracing I have made a slight improvement by welding a 4mm plate into the horizontal section just below the stainless box in the centre of her.
I did consider a triangulation of the frame in this area but thought it would take up too much space I had set aside for my electric box.
The ali box section swing arm is a good option towards stiffening the frame enough for enjoyable riding in the UK, now that she is not going to be the café racer I had originally planned.
The main problem is I see something and I think I can do that to her, and although it is true USD,s may be a pain to set up I have seen a couple of really nice conversions.
The set up problem is just another set up problem and will give me a challenge, you have got to keep working your napper
I have had her out last Sunday to Clay Cross and Matlock Bath with the R6 forks set to standard with the internal Ohlin's progressive springs and with he addition of the ali box section swing arm the handling is good enough for fast road riding within the limits of a bog standard 650cc engine.
The conversion to a set of USD radial front legs for her will possibly be the last major alteration and is purely aesthetic.
I THINK MAYBE POSSIBLY
Leslie
defining a bike is an opinion, and I think racer Dave's "Hot Rod" description is something I can live with and I actually like.
Lads love Bikes and forum's like this forum open up the whole spectrum of design possibilities, my main aim was originally to convert a
XS650 into a sharp track day tool(Café Racer) with an engine upgrade to 750cc + to use on track days here in the UK alongside a modern superbike just for a bit of fun or a good craic.
Then someone suggested I join the XS650 forums I saw Pregrid's and others bike's and though bugger the café racer that's what I want, hence what I have now kind of
The main frame set up is something I have deliberated over for hours when I sourced the basic XS, and realised the tubular frame is in need of serious bracing I have made a slight improvement by welding a 4mm plate into the horizontal section just below the stainless box in the centre of her.
I did consider a triangulation of the frame in this area but thought it would take up too much space I had set aside for my electric box.
The ali box section swing arm is a good option towards stiffening the frame enough for enjoyable riding in the UK, now that she is not going to be the café racer I had originally planned.
The main problem is I see something and I think I can do that to her, and although it is true USD,s may be a pain to set up I have seen a couple of really nice conversions.
The set up problem is just another set up problem and will give me a challenge, you have got to keep working your napper
I have had her out last Sunday to Clay Cross and Matlock Bath with the R6 forks set to standard with the internal Ohlin's progressive springs and with he addition of the ali box section swing arm the handling is good enough for fast road riding within the limits of a bog standard 650cc engine.
The conversion to a set of USD radial front legs for her will possibly be the last major alteration and is purely aesthetic.
I THINK MAYBE POSSIBLY
Leslie
Last edited:
"So good sir, if you have deciphered the uncrack able code of how to convince ourselves (and our significant others) that we really do need that rephasing kit MORE than we need to pay this month's rent, you most certainly owe it to us all to share your discovery with your suffering and quite sick brothers."
Jeester,
I have to fund my love of all things motorcycle without touching the household budget, hence the foray into producing a kit to convert the XS650 into an aluminium box section swing arm, this has back fired on me a bit though, due to the cost of re-engineering a swing arm from a monoshock to a twin shock item.
I am a bit of a quality freak and I designed the kit for my bike only using top quality components which either I manufactured or I sourced them locally, and used this as a template/model for all 5 swing arm kits.
I was thinking make a few pounds to fund future upgrades when and if required but people wont and cannot pay for quality for what is basically a Big Boys Toy.
But when I have costed the whole swing arm project up I will be lucky if I break even, although the experience has been great and I have travelled no more than 8 miles out of my village to meet people with engineering companies who are so helpful.
hptt://www.torquetune.co.uk at New Ollerton
Bcc Engineering services at Bilsthorpe (CNC)
NRP Exhausts designer and builder (Classic race bike specialist) at Bilsthorpe
AJP Engineering at Bilsthorpe all things motorcycle
Mark Chilvers Motorcycles at Tuxford
Leslie
Jeester,
I have to fund my love of all things motorcycle without touching the household budget, hence the foray into producing a kit to convert the XS650 into an aluminium box section swing arm, this has back fired on me a bit though, due to the cost of re-engineering a swing arm from a monoshock to a twin shock item.
I am a bit of a quality freak and I designed the kit for my bike only using top quality components which either I manufactured or I sourced them locally, and used this as a template/model for all 5 swing arm kits.
I was thinking make a few pounds to fund future upgrades when and if required but people wont and cannot pay for quality for what is basically a Big Boys Toy.
But when I have costed the whole swing arm project up I will be lucky if I break even, although the experience has been great and I have travelled no more than 8 miles out of my village to meet people with engineering companies who are so helpful.
hptt://www.torquetune.co.uk at New Ollerton
Bcc Engineering services at Bilsthorpe (CNC)
NRP Exhausts designer and builder (Classic race bike specialist) at Bilsthorpe
AJP Engineering at Bilsthorpe all things motorcycle
Mark Chilvers Motorcycles at Tuxford
Leslie
Last edited:
Jeester
Have you ever sold a bike or a car and a couple of months/years regretted it.
Leslie
Have you ever sold a bike or a car and a couple of months/years regretted it.
Leslie
Jeeter
XS650 Addict
Pfft! The list is long and a grand testimony to my stupidity!
Hey Les, just so you know I was totally kidding around with the whole "how do you do it?" routine. I was making fun of how we as motorcycle builders/riders/backyard engineers will spend our last cent on bike parts while concocting the most shady "reasons" for doing so. I mean I've forgotten how many MX bikes, Noguchi top end kits, Yokohama Dirt Digger 901 rear tires, and used flat track bikes my MOM got for her "birthday" (ahem) when I was a kid. My dad bought "her" a brand new 1973 Yamaha 360 MX for her birthday (chuckle chuckle). And it just so happened to include all the parts required to convert "her" new 360MX into a spankin' TT bike that was just great for tracks such as Perris, Manzanita in Pheonix, and DeAnza in Riverside, y'know like the 19 inch front wheel kit, the suspension changes, new pipe, and so on. I mean, y'know .... how us motorcycle riders can be!
By the way, my mom couldn't ride a motorcycle if a gun was at her head, she tried once out at Jawbone Canyon out here in the Mojave Desert, she ate big shit and landed in a forgiving creosote bush. Pissed off as a hornet at her husband and two sons because the three of them (uh, us) were all nearly pissing themselves with laughter at her antics.
See, what happened was she took off - popped clutch 1st gear throttle wide open - and her legs sticking straight out like some kindof outriggers, and her 60's "boufont" hair-do wafting around like some kindof live animal atop her head. The sand and dust she threw up was awesome! She kept the throttle wide open, both legs stretched out as straight as possible and hauling ass in 1st gear as fast as my little TT bike would go across the desert sand, the bike trying it's hardest to remain upright while she carved a horribly crooked weaving nearly totally out of control line through the Jawbone Canyon sand and dirt. All the while she was screaming at the top of her lungs "YOU BASTARDS!" (holy shit I am laughing so hard right now, I can hardly type this!). She ended up going ass-over-teakettle into that previously mentioned bush, mad as hell! All three of us "boys" were running to (ahem) "her aid", yelling at her to "hit the kill button, hit the kill button!" as the poor little bike was on it's throttle side with the throttle held wide open and the engine was screaming at full throttle. Us guys could not understand why she was so upset with us for concerning ourselves with my motorcycle first instead of her, after all the bike had to be shut down before we could hear her tell us about her "injuries" (the messed up hair do). Good lord that was one funny scene. Obviously she never attempted that again.
So my previous posting was a total self mocking monolog ... I hope it was taken that way.
I have a dry sense of humor and have been taken wrong before, mostly due to me being far to forward far to early on when I meet someone.
Consider yourselves lucky, my wife has put up with me for 35+ years. The woman deserves a medal.
Last edited:
Jeepster,
absolutely no offence taken bikers seem to have a sense of humour that transcends geological borders I know you was on a wind up mucka.
although I never got that the north Americans could take to "Monty python's Flying Circus" must have a weird sense of humour
Leslie
absolutely no offence taken bikers seem to have a sense of humour that transcends geological borders I know you was on a wind up mucka.
although I never got that the north Americans could take to "Monty python's Flying Circus" must have a weird sense of humour
Leslie
pregrid
XS650 Guru
Jeepster,
absolutely no offence taken bikers seem to have a sense of humour that transcends geological borders I know you was on a wind up mucka.
although I never got that the north Americans could take to "Monty python's Flying Circus" must have a weird sense of humour
Leslie
Monty Python, one of the best comic series (and movies) EVER!
Pregrid,
I loved the Monty Python films as well, have you had the Black Adder series over in he US.
Leslie
I loved the Monty Python films as well, have you had the Black Adder series over in he US.
Leslie
pregrid
XS650 Guru
Not to my knowledge.
Pregrid,
If you ever get chance watch the whole TV series of "Black Adder Goes Forth" starring Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean) and Hugh Laurie (Dr Gregory House US sitcom House MD).
It is set in WW1 with a British regiment in the trenches, The sarcasm and Sinicism plus the humour in which they take the piss out of warfare is brilliant.
Leslie
If you ever get chance watch the whole TV series of "Black Adder Goes Forth" starring Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean) and Hugh Laurie (Dr Gregory House US sitcom House MD).
It is set in WW1 with a British regiment in the trenches, The sarcasm and Sinicism plus the humour in which they take the piss out of warfare is brilliant.
Leslie
I have 1 swing arm kit left, as one is on its way to Canada Monday
Lads,
I was quoted from £116 to £149 to post the swing arm to Canada via Royal Mail UPS FED EX etc etc that is with pick up from my house except for Royal Mail, I tried Parcel2GO.com F++KING HELL what a difference £61 turns out it is picked up by Fed ex when I tried their site direct it was over £130 how's that work then
leslie
Lads,
I was quoted from £116 to £149 to post the swing arm to Canada via Royal Mail UPS FED EX etc etc that is with pick up from my house except for Royal Mail, I tried Parcel2GO.com F++KING HELL what a difference £61 turns out it is picked up by Fed ex when I tried their site direct it was over £130 how's that work then
leslie
Jeeter
XS650 Addict
We just went through something along those lines with FedEx just the other day. I actually lost a sale of some brand new Supertrapp stingers (mufflers) to a Canadian fella due to the way FedEx was listing things on their website vs how they do things at their actual drop-off points. I quoted the guy the shipping amount that the FedEx site provided, and he checked up on me by walking in to a FedEx hub somewhere nearby his home (in Toronto). There was a pretty severe difference in quoted shipping costs, making me appear to be an opportunist (what the FedEx website quoted was higher than what the person at the hub quoted the Canadian fella, so he thought I was trying to make more money by jacking up the shipping costs that I quoted him). Even after I sent him a link to the website that showed him the quoted internet cost of shipping the pipes from me to him he still got his nuts in a rumble and backed out. Some People's Children, holy shit.I have 1 swing arm kit left, as one is on its way to Canada Monday
Lads,
I was quoted from £116 to £149 to post the swing arm to Canada via Royal Mail UPS FED EX etc etc that is with pick up from my house except for Royal Mail, I tried Parcel2GO.com F++KING HELL what a difference £61 turns out it is picked up by Fed ex when I tried their site direct it was over £130 how's that work then
leslie
Jeeter
XS650 Addict
~Leslie~ ... on your bike. What I find appealing is the sense of non-description it puts forth. The bike defies description, which is exactly why I like it. It cannot really be pidgeonholed into some ready-made design box like "Tracker" or "bobber" (or pick one).
My own project is pretty much the same thing, a culmination of stuff that I prefer, period. What kind of bike is it? Hells bells, that's easy. It's MY kind of bike, that's what ~kind~ of bike it is.
~~~ Monty excerpt ...... (the char women - played by Eric Idle and John Cleese and sometimes Terry Jones - sit on the couch) "What's on the tele?" .... "Looks like a penguine"
OR .....
The char women sit on the couch pondering what is sitting on top of the television ..... "What's on the tele" ..... "A piston engine" ..... "Why did you buy a piston engine?" ...... "It was on sale!"
And now for something completely different ..... It's ..... time .... for ....
My own project is pretty much the same thing, a culmination of stuff that I prefer, period. What kind of bike is it? Hells bells, that's easy. It's MY kind of bike, that's what ~kind~ of bike it is.
~~~ Monty excerpt ...... (the char women - played by Eric Idle and John Cleese and sometimes Terry Jones - sit on the couch) "What's on the tele?" .... "Looks like a penguine"
OR .....
The char women sit on the couch pondering what is sitting on top of the television ..... "What's on the tele" ..... "A piston engine" ..... "Why did you buy a piston engine?" ...... "It was on sale!"
And now for something completely different ..... It's ..... time .... for ....
The dead parrot sketch is my favourite
xsdogstar
xsdogstar
you know.. a mo-mo...
a mo-mo is one of your best buddies who you hang out with... but he isn't always quite right... about most things, but means well always...
a mo-mo is one of your best buddies who you hang out with... but he isn't always quite right... about most things, but means well always...
