Boyer Bransden question

phillycyclocross

XS650 Enthusiast
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Philadelphia PA
My XS's PO was a wiring idiot or genius I'm not sure which but I've been slowly rewiring the bike since I got it. The latest thing I did was to wire in the factory switches so I can actually have a kill switch. I also wired in an ignition switch as well.

So the problem now is that when the bike is off the ignition and kill switch work exactly like you would expect them to. However once the bike is running they don't do shit. I still have to stall the bike to kill it. Even when I kick it over and it doesn't start I can here the ignition system firing constantly. Is this how this ignition system is supposed to be set up? :banghead:
 
Obviously, you have the ignition and kill switch wired incorrectly. With the engine running, either the ignition or the kill switch should normally be able to shut down the engine. You better spend some time reviewing the wiring diagrams in the "Tech" section. Since you did the latest wiring, I guess you know who to blame.

If your engine doesn't start on the first kick, you have a problem with carbs/ignition/compression etc. Repair those and you can start up on one kick.
 
It was fucked from the get go so it's not me who's to blame.

And every bike you own always starts on the first kick every time?? Riiiight...

My question is are these ignition systems supposed to start firing the moment the crank starts moving? Are they mechanically driven? Obviously it's being backfed somewhere through the mess of a wiring that's still left and I need to find it. But before I do I want to understand how this ignition system is designed to work.
 
It was fucked from the get go so it's not me who's to blame.

And every bike you own always starts on the first kick every time?? Riiiight...

My question is are these ignition systems supposed to start firing the moment the crank starts moving? Are they mechanically driven? Obviously it's being backfed somewhere through the mess of a wiring that's still left and I need to find it. But before I do I want to understand how this ignition system is designed to work.

You said you wired in the ignition and kill switches, but now you have to stall the engine to shut it down.........................your electrical knowledge is a little weak................spend some time studying the wiring diagrams, to understand how the ignition coil gets its power. So the PO was an idiot, now's your chance to correct his errors. Hint: Power must flow through the ignition switch and the kill switch first before it reaches the coil, so either can break the path and stop the high voltage.

I believe the Boyer is driven off the camshaft, so yes its mechanically driven, and yes there must be motion for any ignition system to start to fire the plugs.

A properly tuned engine will start on the first kick, or at least on the second kick.
 
Hi,

Sounds that way.

The Boyer Bransden unit is a decent bit of kit and I have used them across a number of bikes, including the current XS650 Cafe build i am on with.

Basically, the unit (I am assuming you have the blue box "Micro Power") is an electrical trigger for the coil including an auto advance feature which is very useful.

Out of the ignition box, you will see a number of wires:

White - Earth

Red - 12v power from a fused (5amp) switched source ie ignition switch / kill switch

2 x Black / yellow and black / white - These are connected to the pick up plate, which will be living under the left hand side points housing cover. There will be a rotor going through the cam behind that. When setting this plate for timing, put the engine at FULL ADVANCE (40 degrees) and turn the plate so that the little white dot on the rotor lines up with the hole on the plate. Very important to do it at full advance and not TDC

Black - This connects to the negative terminal on the small Gill coil which sends the signal to the coil to collapse the field and generate the spark.

Fitting instructions and wiring diagram here - http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00103__BOX00010_.pdf

In answer to your question above. As soon as they have power (and they do need a good charged battery to work properly) they will fire both plugs as the ignition plate is triggered by the rotor. You can test this by diconnecting the two wires from the pick up plate and with the plugs removed and grounded, touch them together and youll see the spark. Both plugs will fire together as its a wasted spark system.

I had a similar issue with a Triumph and an XS last year belonging to a friend with PO wiring. For me the solution was to pull the whole wiring loom out and start again. That way, I knew what I had done was right.
 
Last edited:
I have done a bunch of boyer ignition and never had that problem. Sounds like you are feeding boyer with voltage all the time and maybe whoever put the kill in is not killing ignition and coil. You may want to double check your wires. If you are running stock handle bar controls the kill should go to coil 12 volt wire.
If you need more help you can contact me at DADDYGCYCLES@YAHOO.COM
Rich
 
Thanks DaddyG and Paul. I think at this point I'll probably do what Paul did and just start from scratch. It's just too damn confusing the way it's wired from PO. Too bad too because it runs like a champ.
 
That's the best way to do it then you know where all the wires go to.
Where do you live at in Philly ? I was born and raised in south philly at 21st and Snyder and had my first motorcycle shop on my own at 24th and Oregon. Philly cool town just too many pot holes that you can disappear in HAHA
KEEP CHOPPIN!!!
 
I would disconnect the boyer until you know you have a switched live, can't be doing it much good with power on constantly to the boyer and the coil.

I'm surprised you haven't got a flat battery,
 
hey i,m trying to put a pamco chargeing system with a boyer brandson blue ing system any thoughts beforei buy the pamco set up manley will they work well togther
 
Pamco makes a pma ?? Do you mean HHB pma charging system? Any charging system will work with the boyer ignition. 2 different systems working independently
 
As far as I know Pamco only makes ignition systems. The ignition only makes the plug fire when they should.
A charging system only charges the battery, with enough extra to keep it charged with the draw of the electrical system. The only way these connect is they both hook to the battery.
The Boyer is an ignition.
The stock charging system is a field excited alternator, this means it needs a good battery to supply the field current to get the alternator to produce electricity.
A PMA or Permanent Magnet Alternator has permanent magnets instead of a field coil. With a PMA it doesn't use a battery to power the field coil because there isn't one.
It can be run with a battery so you can still power the e-start or with a capacitor and be kick start only.
Leo
 
Philly, I have Hughs PMA and Boyer ignition. from the ignition switch the power should go to your fuses. Two of my 10amp fuses lead off to the lighting system, and two lead off to the ignition system. forget the lighting, and imagine one wire coming out of each of the two fuses to the igition - one goild to the Boyer blue box and the other to the Boyer coil. I have made it really simple for myself by putting a kill switch on both wires between fuse and blue box and then between fuse and coil. That way when I want to stop I flick one of these switches - it stops. I flick both switches and I know that no power at all it running through the ignition.

I am still learning, Philly, and the guys on the forum have really helped, especially XSLeo and Retiredgentleman who have great patience with a novice electrics man like me.

ANLAF
 
hi me agin i have a 1981 650 with elec ing i,m cahnge to a boyer bandsom the instructions say set at 1st or full advanse not f or t only fand t marks exist since i don,t have 3 positions marked what do i do thanks james c
 
Hi, to find your full advance position, measure 40 degrees clockwise (or BTDC before top dead centre) from your TDC mark. Use this mark when setting the pick up plate.
 
james c, it's a bit hard to read your post, spelling and punctuation will help.
Now I think you are saying on your bike you only have a T mark and the F marks. for timing.
If so, the full advance lines up with the left edge of the notch at the bottom of the opening.
If I had a pic I would post it. There is a pic out there some where.
Hope this helps.
Leo
 
ANLAF, it sounds like you have twice as many parts between the fuses and ignition as you need.
Use one fuse, run it to one engine stop switch, run to both the ignition and coil. This way when you flip the switch it stops the power to both the ignition and coil.
Leo
 
I had this tonight, I've been trying to sort through the PO wiring, it turned out to be very simple on mine, all it was power wire from the regulator and the rectifier in the wrong way round, so the reg had constant live rather than the rectifier, only had two wires to choose from and still got it wrong.
 
thanks leo i gesst mated 40 dgrees and pow its started right up ahhh new problem not getting 14.5 volts chargeing at rthe bat i very much appricate the feed back from you guys sorry about my typeing skills does the brandsome run off the battery alone it seems to be ie the more i run the more my bat goes down don,t wnat to go for ride untill i know i,ll get back i hate pushing i,m gettin to old for it any thoughts
 
Back
Top