Fix Stock Charging System or Buy A PMA

Well folks,

Went through Curly's guide and the whole system, well, it shit the bed. I have a 1973 TX650 with the stock reg, rec, well, the whole charging system. The regulator is not working so it is not allowing the battery to recharge, rectifier has at least one diode that fails to allow it AC to DC, and the stator seems to have the partial short. The alternator has low readings. However, the brushes look good!

Now, I can manage to find a NOS charging system with a new SS reg/rec unit for $150. However, a lot of people strongly suggest switching to a PMA. My question is which one? I spoke with Hugh and I like his PMA set-up, but worry about the overheating issue I have read. Then, almost every thread I read about Hugh's PMA, people mention PowerDynamo such from Heiden.

My question, for my 73' TX650, with what seems like a solid ignition system and points, what is the better route? Do I get a NOS charging system with the SS reg/rec unit for $150 OR do I spend the ~$310 for either Hugh's or PowerDynamo's PMA? What are the pros/cons of stock Vs PMA?

Thanks all!

Me, I'd go with the NOS system. It's been reliable for 46 years and still is.
The way the stock system works it draws less HP to run once the battery recovers from starting. When it actually makes power it draws about the same, but when the full power output is not needed it turns off, when off it draws no HP.
A lot of race bikes use a total loss battery system, no alternator at all, just runs on a battery. Lets engine make full power all the time.
Leo

Thanks, Leo.

My bike has been running on just the battery, for a while now. Runs great, but when I got stranded at a light and had to walk it home..that was the last straw haha.
Could you tell me what they mean when they say 180 or 200 Watts of charging power?
How does this compare to stock? So, IF I did go with the PMA it will draw more HP which causes less power at the engine?
Is there a way to allow the bike to work on kick start with a low battery charge on a stock charging system?

Give me a call 563-940-3363 or email me at gary@hoosracing.com and I can go over the Powerdynamo I been using and selling for over 10 years, just put it on my old 73 I just sold my brother in law. Here is a link to there web page, " http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7376/7376main.htm ", They been making these proven systems for just about every bike out there for years, Gary

180 or 200 watts is the total output of the alternator. 180 watts is about 12.4 amps, 200 watts is about 13.7 amps. The stock system is 16 amps or about 232 watts.
A permanent magnet alternator puts out it's max charge all the time. The reg/rec just bleeds off some of this output and converts it to heat.
The stock system uses an electromagnet. The reg turns the electromagnet on/off as power is needed.
All engine driven components draw HP to run. The PMA's with a slightly reduced output do draw slightly less power than the stock system when the system is making power, the stock system shuts off when power isn't needed.
So the stock system draws less HP to run than a PMA.
Leo

Hooser,

I will send you an email shortly.

Thank you,

Murr.

Look at it this way, you get better performance due to no points wear, no cam chain slack causing timing issues, so if in fact you are loosing hp, which that is guestionable, you would gain stronger, more reliable spark. There in no one out there making a points system today, Gary

hooser said:

Give me a call 563-940-3363 or email me at gary@hoosracing.com and I can go over the Powerdynamo I been using and selling for over 10 years, just put it on my old 73 I just sold my brother in law. Here is a link to there web page, " http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7376/7376main.htm ", They been making these proven systems for just about every bike out there for years, Gary

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Nice to see that the powerdynamo people removed the false statement,"the stock alternator can only put out 130 watts" from their website. Honesty in advertising is important, with all of the fraud going on these days.

Retired they are good people, good products.. the only problem I have had with them is the translation for German to English.

I decided to go with a PMA on mine. I kept the points though due to nostalgic purposes. Both my 50CC bikes as a kid had points and for some silly reason it reminds me of being a kid.

MplsMurr said:

Well folks,

Went through Curly's guide and the whole system, well, it shit the bed. I have a 1973 TX650 with the stock reg, rec, well, the whole charging system. The regulator is not working so it is not allowing the battery to recharge, rectifier has at least one diode that fails to allow it AC to DC, and the stator seems to have the partial short. The alternator has low readings. However, the brushes look good!

Now, I can manage to find a NOS charging system with a new SS reg/rec unit for $150. However, a lot of people strongly suggest switching to a PMA. My question is which one? I spoke with Hugh and I like his PMA set-up, but worry about the overheating issue I have read. Then, almost every thread I read about Hugh's PMA, people mention PowerDynamo such from Heiden.

My question, for my 73' TX650, with what seems like a solid ignition system and points, what is the better route? Do I get a NOS charging system with the SS reg/rec unit for $150 OR do I spend the ~$310 for either Hugh's or PowerDynamo's PMA? What are the pros/cons of stock Vs PMA?

Thanks all!

Click to expand...

I agree with Leo. If you can buy a nos alternator/charging system for $150, that is a real good deal. The stock charging system is a much better design than a PMA system. Cars and trucks have used the same system, as our stock XS650 system for decades and decades, and for good reason. PMA's have an uncontrolled alternator, which puts out full amps all the time, it has no way to reduce the alternator output. Since the bike uses less than the full power, the PMA rec/reg unit has to find some way to get rid of the extra amps. It does this by converting the extra amps to heat. There have been quite a few threads on this site about PMA systems burning up either the stator wiring or the reg/reg units, due to over heating.

"A lot of people suggesting the use of PMA systems"....................yes of course, PMA sellers such as HHB and Hooser suggest this very often. They like to suggest that the stock system is somehow inferior. They also say that points wear and camchain slack cause problems. Points ignition had been used for at least 80 years on cars, trucks and motorcycles with very little problem, when given some occasional maintenance to adjust points gap and timing. My present ignition (Pamco) runs from the camshaft, and over 10 years now, I have never had any problems due to camchain slack.

Don't let these PMA sellers scare you away from using a points system ignition if that is what you choose.

My bike is 38 years old and still using the original stock alternator. The original alternators are high quality Japanese parts. Be cautious of PMA sellers, that use mostly chinese/taiwan parts of lower quality.

A PMA system is like a car driving down the road with the gas pedal stuck fully to the floor, and the driver has to keep his foot pressed down on the brake pedal in order to prevent the car racing out of control at high speed. Too much energy created that must be burned off as heat. In comparison,a stock XS650 system is like a car driving down the road, that the driver has the ability to move the gas pedal up and down as required to maintain his desired speed....................only create as much energy as needed.

It does this by converting the extra amps to heat. There have been quite a few threads on this site about PMA systems burning up either the stator wiring or the reg/reg units, due to over heating.

Show me the thread where a Powerdynamo did that , I Never had one do that. Just need to buy quality parts.

hooser said:

It does this by converting the extra amps to heat. There have been quite a few threads on this site about PMA systems burning up either the stator wiring or the reg/reg units, due to over heating.

Show me the thread where a Powerdynamo did that , I Never had one do that. Just need to buy quality parts.

Click to expand...

I'm referring to the PMA sellers that source their parts from China/Taiwan, such as Mikesxs/XS650 Direct and HHB.

I don't remember ever seeing a thread on this site from someone that bought a Powerdynamo product. Is it possible to have a buyer of the XS650 Powerdynamo product post a thread on this site, so we can all hear an unbiased report, either positive or negative. If you are selling a quality product, lets get some feedback from the happy buyers.

And while were at it least post for all the stock systems that went bad, have a friend that was a Yamaha service shop. Said they had there share of problem too. Are you still running points?

I have also ready a lot of threads where PMAs overheat, especially at the reg/rec unit. This worries me since I have a shorai 12V/14Ah battery with two LED lights as my run/brake light and a stock enclosed headlight. I would be greatly worried about overheating and damaging my wires/units.

Yes, I am running on points. Both my points and ignition system seem to be running fine.

Sorry not you I was asking retired. As far as running fine. You may be surprised my brotherinlaw was after putting on his 73(my old one) the ran a lot better according to him.. I have his # if you want to contact him. just pm me.gary

I am also a fan of the stock alternator for the reasons stated by XSLeo and retiredgentleman.

That being said, most stock motorcycle systems are PMA. They are simple and work fine. I'm a bit skeptical of reports of HHB or other aftermarket units overheating. This is because I know nothing of the machines they're installed in and/or the ability of the installers. As stated, the unused current is going to go someplace and it's going to be heat. If it has no other path to escape, it's going to heat up the stator. I'm saying I have no way of knowing if the installer botched the job or unit is faulty. One report said, "connections are solid." That means nothing to me. I can tie the wires in a square knot and call them solid. See what I mean?

Here's a wire splicing tutorial someone may find helpful.

Is your bike a restoration or stock? If yes then you might as well run the stock setup and save some pennies. On the other hand are you building a custom project & looking to shed as much weight as possible? Or maybe you building a stripped chopper and don't want to hide a big heavy battery? Then use a PMA. Either system has people on here who like or dislike them.

My bike is a 1973 TX650 with a stock charging system, but I have customized it to a nice, badass looking cafe racer. I am intrigued by the PMA, but am worried that I would overheat something since I am running LED run/brake lights, a stock headlamp, and no blinkers. Is there a way to, for lack of a better word, redirect the heat that a PMA would supply? I would hate to spend money on a PMA just to overheat something and be out money, a new charging system, and be back where I started.