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Hesitation under load when Turn Signals are flashing! Lol
- Thread starter xonix_digital
- Start date
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
I was thinking the same thing. Takes 'til 4500rpm to get to 13v.
Just tested it.
Now I generally go for short rides and I've been using the electric starter a lot.
Could the battery just be running low like it hasn't had enough time to charge while running?
Not sure how long is enough but my rides are usually 15-20 minutes since I've been having this issue.
Not to complicate things inadvertently but I am using an eBay gel battery.
but its giving me 12v solid when the bike is off so I would think that that wasn't it.
Max charging output is supposed to occur by about 3500 RPM, and it shouldn't go any higher after that no matter what the RPM. I think your "custom" wiring job may be messing with your charging, lol. I don't think 12.8 to 13 volts output will ever fully charge your battery. I would try charging the battery fully with a battery charger and then taking a test ride to see how things operate with a fully charged battery.
Your fundamental problem is your charging system is not charging. Its very common on these bikes after all the many years of use (maybe abuse). Remove the brushes and measure the resistance between the 2 slip rings, using the lowest ohm scale. You should measure 5 to 6 ohms. Measure the length of the brushes. If they are getting down to the 0.400" size, then buy new brushes. If the ohms measure OK ,clean the slip rings until they are bright and shiney.
A fully charge battery should read about 12.5 volts after its been sitting overnight. 12.0 volts means the battery is not being charged. As 5twins says, when you rev the engine to 3000+ rpm, you want to see 14+ volts on the VOM. Once you get the lack of charging sorted out, its worthwhile to install an LED tail light. On the 1980 to 84 years, the stock bikes used two #1156 bulbs for the tail/brake lights. They draw a lot of current, so replacing them with an LED unit is going to save amps and keep the voltage up where it should be.
Install a permanent voltmeter on your bike.
A fully charge battery should read about 12.5 volts after its been sitting overnight. 12.0 volts means the battery is not being charged. As 5twins says, when you rev the engine to 3000+ rpm, you want to see 14+ volts on the VOM. Once you get the lack of charging sorted out, its worthwhile to install an LED tail light. On the 1980 to 84 years, the stock bikes used two #1156 bulbs for the tail/brake lights. They draw a lot of current, so replacing them with an LED unit is going to save amps and keep the voltage up where it should be.
Install a permanent voltmeter on your bike.
This tiny, digital, waterproof, green numbered volt meter works very well for me. It can be powered by any ignition switched circuit. For better accuracy mine is hooked to a relay that is direct to the battery, my ignition coils are also on that relay, switched by power after the ignition switch. I have three of these for three different bikes. They are available on ebay for a few bucks and shipped the long way from China. I make mounting tabs for them from ABS plastic and glue them to the ABS body with ABS glue. They would quickly show me a problem with battery or alternator. This one is mounted under the valve cap of the air assist forks on one of my Honda 750 Customs.
Scott
12.2 volts at idle with lights on, 14.1 volts at midrange with lights on. Checking battery at rest voltage should be done without lights, and ignition off, I do that occasionally with a meter at the battery, no off switch or relay for lights on this bike. Some people wire these directly to the battery, no switch, on all of the time, I just don't want that parasite.
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xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
Awesome info.
Thanks all!
I did some more work on the bike and found that the turn signal switch had been switched out at some point over the years so the wiring diagram doesn't match up exactly.
I think you guys are right about the charging system not working properly, and the TCI not operating properly under low voltage.
The rotor has been swapped out recently, it was one of the first things I did. The brushes did leave a nasty black streak on the new rotor so maybe they need to be cleaned or replaced. I will test the rings as recommended as well.
Thanks all for the great tips. When I inherited the bike it was said to have "charging problems". I guess since it ran after I swapped the rotor that I thought I solved the whole problem. I guess not!
Thanks all!
I did some more work on the bike and found that the turn signal switch had been switched out at some point over the years so the wiring diagram doesn't match up exactly.
I think you guys are right about the charging system not working properly, and the TCI not operating properly under low voltage.
The rotor has been swapped out recently, it was one of the first things I did. The brushes did leave a nasty black streak on the new rotor so maybe they need to be cleaned or replaced. I will test the rings as recommended as well.
Thanks all for the great tips. When I inherited the bike it was said to have "charging problems". I guess since it ran after I swapped the rotor that I thought I solved the whole problem. I guess not!
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
I have ordered replacement LED tail lights and an LED flasher relay.
They are due in tomorrow.
I will remove the stator tonight and see if it is all gunked up or if the brushes are too short (thanks retiredgentleman for the tip).
I found this video on YouTube today. Good info here on how to test the rotor.
MrTwoWheel, I like the idea but will have to try and find one stateside cause I'm already having withdrawals!
Looks like there plenty of options on ebay. Thanks!
5Twins, I am going to hold off on charging the battery manually until after I check out the stator. Would be nice to clean it up and show a marked difference in voltage without having to use an external charging mechanism. Thanks for the insight regarding when I should be hitting what voltage. Very helpful benchmark for reference!
You guys rock.
They are due in tomorrow.
I will remove the stator tonight and see if it is all gunked up or if the brushes are too short (thanks retiredgentleman for the tip).
I found this video on YouTube today. Good info here on how to test the rotor.
MrTwoWheel, I like the idea but will have to try and find one stateside cause I'm already having withdrawals!
Looks like there plenty of options on ebay. Thanks!
5Twins, I am going to hold off on charging the battery manually until after I check out the stator. Would be nice to clean it up and show a marked difference in voltage without having to use an external charging mechanism. Thanks for the insight regarding when I should be hitting what voltage. Very helpful benchmark for reference!
You guys rock.
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
Just ordered this one with overnight shipping! 
And I can ziptie it to my handlebars so it matches all the other crap hanging off my bike!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JOB790K/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
And I can ziptie it to my handlebars so it matches all the other crap hanging off my bike!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JOB790K/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
Got the new LED turn signals and flasher.
Taking apart/testing the charging system and hooking up the voltmeter tomorrow.
New signals working 100% and all the wiring is all cleaned up behind the headlight.
Still using ghetto crimps for now. Will clean that up later.
Taking apart/testing the charging system and hooking up the voltmeter tomorrow.
New signals working 100% and all the wiring is all cleaned up behind the headlight.
Still using ghetto crimps for now. Will clean that up later.
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
Got my sweet volt meter installed.
I took a video so you guys see the output...
Yes, that is 9.45v at idle and around 11.4v at 3500rpm.
I took my stator off and measured my brushes. They stick out from the stator cover about 0.25". Is that the measurement I'm supposed to be taking? Or am I supposed to remove the brushes and then measure the carbon bit?
I've ordered replacements because they're cheap.
I also completely cleaned my rotor surface before the test video above. After brushes I will be moving onto the regulator/rectifier.
Does this seem like the right path?
I took a video so you guys see the output...
Yes, that is 9.45v at idle and around 11.4v at 3500rpm.
I took my stator off and measured my brushes. They stick out from the stator cover about 0.25". Is that the measurement I'm supposed to be taking? Or am I supposed to remove the brushes and then measure the carbon bit?
I've ordered replacements because they're cheap.
I also completely cleaned my rotor surface before the test video above. After brushes I will be moving onto the regulator/rectifier.
Does this seem like the right path?
Take your battery, no matter what age, to an autoparts store for testing, they will do it for free, no obligation. Then take it to another store for a second test.
Scott
Scott
You may be interested in this long thread about rotor runout and brushes.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/dead-rotor-best-options-to-fix-replace.36211/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/dead-rotor-best-options-to-fix-replace.36211/
xonix digital;.....................have you measured the rotor resistance from slip ring to slip ring yet?
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
I did.
4.8 ohms.
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
Very interesting!
Didn't even know what runout was.
Thanks, I will look into this tonight!
Here's a link to the charging guide on the site here. It will show you how to test everything. You've done some of the tests already. There is a simple one to check your regulator. But, the amount of change in your charging output (about 2 volts) seems about right, the starting and finishing numbers are just too low. It's possible the rectifier portion of your combined reg/rec has gone bad ......
http://www.xs650.com/threads/expanded-charging-system-guide-in-progress.10561/
These bikes use 3 phase alternators. There are 3 sets of windings or coils in them. You have 3 white wires coming out of the alternator. One white connects to each coil. These run to a 3 phase rectifier. That changes the AC output from the alternator to DC current for the bike. The rectifier has 3 sets of diodes in it, one connects to each white wire/alternator coil. If one of those diodes has gone bad, you will only get about 2/3 of the output from the alternator because it's only running off 2 of it's 3 coils. This may be your problem. It's also possible one of those coils in the alternator itself has gone bad.
So, I would test your regulator, rectifier, and alternator. I think you'll find your problem there, most likely in the rectifier or alternator. Hope for the rectifier. That can be replaced with a separate, stand alone unit for less than $10.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/expanded-charging-system-guide-in-progress.10561/
These bikes use 3 phase alternators. There are 3 sets of windings or coils in them. You have 3 white wires coming out of the alternator. One white connects to each coil. These run to a 3 phase rectifier. That changes the AC output from the alternator to DC current for the bike. The rectifier has 3 sets of diodes in it, one connects to each white wire/alternator coil. If one of those diodes has gone bad, you will only get about 2/3 of the output from the alternator because it's only running off 2 of it's 3 coils. This may be your problem. It's also possible one of those coils in the alternator itself has gone bad.
So, I would test your regulator, rectifier, and alternator. I think you'll find your problem there, most likely in the rectifier or alternator. Hope for the rectifier. That can be replaced with a separate, stand alone unit for less than $10.
Did you note the resistance when you touched the 2 meter leads together, prior to the test readings? Sometimes that can read 0.5 to 0.9 ohms or more. So a 4.8 reading could actually be 3.9 to 4.3 ohms, which would mean the rotor windings are partially shorted out.
You should also measure resistance from either slip ring to the frame of the rotor. It should be a very high resistance reading, to be sure the voltage is not being grounded.
xonix_digital
XS650 Addict
I did and it read all zeros (down to 0.00).
if it is actually 4.8ohm should the rotor be functioning normally?
Thank you 5Twins!
I will digest and decipher these notes and likely just replace the rectifier to remove this from the equation.
$10 down the tubes is better than 1 day of summer without riding!
Great link too BTW. for some reason this one never came up in my searches.
If your rotor looks like the one on the left it is on the last legs of life.
