CDI massive voltage drop with headlight on

Did his warranty cover all of the replacement parts? In other words, you have only paid for the original cost of the kit, and the 2 replacement rec/reg units were supplied at no cost to you?
c'mon WER say it! Hughs is a stand up guy! His is a small operation ( he got bigger realized what a trap that is and went back to a 2 man shop, happy as a tick on a hound's back.) The world could use a bunch more like him. I have never done business with him other than getting his parts on bikes and projects I bought from others. I did meet him and his man Teven down at the Barber Vintage fest. We had a great chat whilst watching XS650's circulate on the Barber road racing track contesting various vintage class races.
 
Did his warranty cover all of the replacement parts? In other words, you have only paid for the original cost of the kit, and the 2 replacement rec/reg units were supplied at no cost to you?

hugh is actually the one who sent me the dyna regulator. i believe it is from RM Stator. i was not given an explanation other than he has been testing with the dyna regulators and they seem to hold up better, so I will offer my own explanation The CDI system different state than the PMA. The CDI actually uses for source coils off of the stator to fire the ignition. This in theory offers what I call a roadside feature where, as what has happened to me in the past, should any component of the charging system fail you still have your ignition to power the bike to get it home or to the shop etc. perhaps the single phase regulator that comes in his kit is simply too weak for the CDI stator

The HD Type Regulator is a Mosfet unit, we have been testing them on our CDI system for a bit now, as we did find that our original 15A regulators were not working up to task (the rating was proper, on paper, but in the real world, a handful of folks proved otherwise) - we sent out a replacement 15A which was promptly killed as well.

So, we sent out the $$$$$ Mosfet Unit, which we have been testing with awesome results. In a shunt type system (such as our CDI and PMA) the regulators have to work overtime with the use of newer low draw electronics. This wasn't an issue 2-3 years ago, when most builds were using High Draw 55/65W Headlights and such. However, with the affordable low draw LED stuff hitting the market, the existing regulators were working overtime to shunt all of the energy not being used. To an extent, a Regulator can be considered a wear item, just like brakes, tires and chains - especially when paired with a low draw and a high output alternator. The HD Mosfet Unit from RMStator has proven excellent, although it comes at a cost of about $129 plus shipping from Canada. We are going to start including them with our newest run of systems, and are looking at a quality Mosfet Unit for our 3 Phase PMA Systems as well.

The Mosfets use digital technology, and were suggested to us directly by RMStator as a much better upgrade over the Standard Regulators. I've talked extensively with the Engineers at RMStator to ensure that our systems are compatible and working up to par - its nice having a contact with a manufacturer that cares.

As for warranty claims, we always want to make things 100% - its our goal, no matter how the damage occurs (we've replaced many components over the years due to poor installs, neglect, etc - at cost or often no charge to the customer)


Hugh
 
c'mon WER say it! Hughs is a stand up guy! His is a small operation ( he got bigger realized what a trap that is and went back to a 2 man shop, happy as a tick on a hound's back.) The world could use a bunch more like him. I have never done business with him other than getting his parts on bikes and projects I bought from others. I did meet him and his man Teven down at the Barber Vintage fest. We had a great chat whilst watching XS650's circulate on the Barber road racing track contesting various vintage class races.

It was great putting a name with a GGGary username! Thanks for the kind words my man!

PS = Tevan got bit by the XS650 racing bug, his XS2 might be hitting the track at some point :)
 
Yes, there has been a problem when HHB sells 200 watt alternators, and all the lads buying them are cutting back the electrical load by eliminating batteries and using LEDs that draw very little current. The electrical system becomes unbalanced. The current has no where to go except for the regulator trying to shunt the current and it gets very hot and may fail.

The lads think they are being "high tech" by reducing the loads using LEDs, but it's actually the wrong thing to do. With a shunt type regulator and a 200 watt alternator, the right thing to do is to use as much wattage in the load as possible i.e. 60 watt headlight, incadescent tail/brake lights and a battery that will absorb some charging current.

Anyone that wants to go with all LEDs should choose to use the stock alternator design, as it has the ability to reduce the field current of the alternator. Small current required in the loads and the alternator delivers only the small current. The electrical system is balanced. The alternator only produces the current that the loads consumes...................no over heating occurs.
 
Yes, there has been a problem when HHB sells 200 watt alternators, and all the lads buying them are cutting back the electrical load by eliminating batteries and using LEDs that draw very little current. The electrical system becomes unbalanced. The current has no where to go except for the regulator trying to shunt the current and it gets very hot and may fail.

The lads think they are being "high tech" by reducing the loads using LEDs, but it's actually the wrong thing to do. With a shunt type regulator and a 200 watt alternator, the right thing to do is to use as much wattage in the load as possible i.e. 60 watt headlight, incadescent tail/brake lights and a battery that will absorb some charging current.

Anyone that wants to go with all LEDs should choose to use the stock alternator design, as it has the ability to reduce the field current of the alternator. Small current required in the loads and the alternator delivers only the small current. The electrical system is balanced. The alternator only produces the current that the loads consumes...................no over heating occurs.

Exactly!

Failures are common when the regulators are shunting 80-90% of the wattage being created. We are seeing it on the older Honda's and Suziki's too, being "chopped/cafe'd/etc" when they have little to no draw with the lighting systems and ignitions. Up until this point, all of the aftermarket 3 Phase PMA systems have been 200W, and ours was good for 120-130W at 2500RPM or so, and 200W Max output at 5500 RPM. It was "balanced" for the draw that these bikes used to have at standard cruising speeds, we are working on creating a new system for folks who have less wattage demand as well. As well as updating our product descriptions (in time, nothing happens overnight) to included suggested watts/draw depending on if they run batteryless or without a battery.

For now, the 50A Rated Mosfet regulators we have been testing work really really well, at a cost of course, and they are might larger in size - which also helps cooling and longevity... 50A isn't totally needed for these bikes, but it's the lowest rated regulator we can find in production currently.
 
Yes, there has been a problem when HHB sells 200 watt alternators, and all the lads buying them are cutting back the electrical load by eliminating batteries and using LEDs that draw very little current. The electrical system becomes unbalanced. The current has no where to go except for the regulator trying to shunt the current and it gets very hot and may fail.

The lads think they are being "high tech" by reducing the loads using LEDs, but it's actually the wrong thing to do. With a shunt type regulator and a 200 watt alternator, the right thing to do is to use as much wattage in the load as possible i.e. 60 watt headlight, incadescent tail/brake lights and a battery that will absorb some charging current.

Anyone that wants to go with all LEDs should choose to use the stock alternator design, as it has the ability to reduce the field current of the alternator. Small current required in the loads and the alternator delivers only the small current. The electrical system is balanced. The alternator only produces the current that the loads consumes...................no over heating occurs.

UNLESS They want to run "no battery".
Need to apologize to WER here, it's RG that seems to have a bee in his bonnet about small independents doing their best to support the XS650 customizers! Oddly, hugh should probably be looking at supplying a LOWER capacity lighting coil, charging system, but factor in a USB port, LOL I laugh to think about the typical "A-G customizer" doing an electrical load evaluation before choosing a charging system.
Just to be straight I think running at least one of the "pocket" batteries is a better solution than a cap even on a "minimalist" machine. I got one of those batteries with a "project bike" put a standard 12 volt connector on it and am finding many uses for it both on and off the bikes. While camping on a cruiser I kept it in the trunk on a "charging pigtail" and used it around the campsite and in the tent as a power source. Need to do a bit more adapting but a decent amount of 12 volt that slips in a jacket pocket is pretty handy.
 
Just for info, could we a see a pic of the 15 and 50 rect/regs side by side?

Lets see if I can do this picture thing properly, I haven't used the new format here just yet...

MOSFET on the left, Standard Style On the Right.
CDI Regulators.jpg
 
UNLESS They want to run "no battery".
Need to apologize to WER here, it's RG that seems to have a bee in his bonnet about small independents doing their best to support the XS650 customizers! Oddly, hugh should probably be looking at supplying a LOWER capacity lighting coil, charging system, but factor in a USB port, LOL I laugh to think about the typical "A-G customizer" doing an electrical load evaluation before choosing a charging system.
Just to be straight I think running at least one of the "pocket" batteries is a better solution than a cap even on a "minimalist" machine. I got one of those batteries with a "project bike" put a standard 12 volt connector on it and am finding many uses for it both on and off the bikes. While camping on a cruiser I kept it in the trunk on a "charging pigtail" and used it around the campsite and in the tent as a power source. Need to do a bit more adapting but a decent amount of 12 volt that slips in a jacket pocket is pretty handy.
Yes Gary, most customers can't or don't want to calculate the electrical load. They are all looking for a simple electrical system. Well, guess what; the stock alternator system is simple and does not require any load calculations. With the stock system you can reduce the electrical loads, and it runs just fine, because the amount of electrical current is controlled at the source. PMA systems are uncontrolled at the source.

Yes, batteries are always better than capacitors.

Oh by the way Gary, if Skull and myself did not point out the lack of feedback on these products, none of the new information from HHB and his customers would have come forth. Its a very good sign that HHB is finally starting to be transparent with this site.
 
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Hugh,

Does your CDI system use a source coil in the alternator for power or is it battery powered? I can't remember seeing a picture. Is it an adapted SR unit?

Thanks,
Tom
 
Hugh,

Does your CDI system use a source coil in the alternator for power or is it battery powered? I can't remember seeing a picture. Is it an adapted SR unit?

Thanks,
Tom

It does use a Source Coil for ignition, so even with a totally flat battery or dead charging side, you can have spark and keep on riding.

I've not looked at an SR Unit, this is not an adapted unit, but rather a custom wound stator, along with a flywheel that is different from the one we use on our PMA systems (they look the same, but thats all they share really)

The Charging System is Single Phase, 200W Max Output at around 6700 RPM.
 
...a flywheel that is different from the one we use on our PMA systems (they look the same, but thats all they share really)...

Uh, oh. Knowing the history of mix/match frankenstuff found in here.
There are those who have, and those who will.

Are they interchangeable?
Any way of telling one from the other?
 
Uh, oh. Knowing the history of mix/match frankenstuff found in here.
There are those who have, and those who will.

Are they interchangeable?
Any way of telling one from the other?

The HHB CDI shares no components with the PMA except for the stator mount. It's fairly obvious when in hand the differences. The CDI Flywheels are tapped for adjustable timing tabs as well, the PMA Flywheels are not. The Stators are night and day different, without a doubt, and they do not share regulators either.

Kind of like trying to mix and match a Pamco with Boyer Parts, it just doesn't quite work like that...

To avoid confusion, we will not be selling any CDI Components seperately. The PMA was originally designed as a Mix It Yourself / DIY Kinda setup, and evolved into a total system as need/demand became apparent. The CDI is not a Mix and Match kinda deal.

Hugh
 
Thanks Hugh. Do you happen to have a photo of the stator?

I was required to diagnose and repair my SR source coil powered CDI ignition. Although I am no expert, I know someone who is! :) I'm trying to learn as much about CDI ignitions as possible.

Thanks,
Tom
 
Thanks Hugh. Do you happen to have a photo of the stator?

I do not have a pic right on hand, its a custom wound stator, to provide just the right output at low rpm for batteryless operation, and still not be too high of output at high rpm. On the outside, it looks like most any other Stator with a source coil however. Im currently out of stock, or I'd grab one and take a snap shot.
 
Snagged these pics from GeorgeOC's thread.

Hugh-CDI-01.jpg


The HHB CDI shares no components with the PMA except for the stator mount. It's fairly obvious when in hand the differences. The CDI Flywheels are tapped for adjustable timing tabs as well, the PMA Flywheels are not. The Stators are night and day different, without a doubt, and they do not share regulators either...

Hugh-CDI-02.jpg


I think I see a trigger magnet mounted on the top edge of the new CDI rotor...
 
Looking at the picture in post #76, does anyone else see what I see? The windings are not wound in a uniform way , but the biggest weakness I see is that there is no resin applied to the coils of wire. With no resin to hold the windings in place, they are going to vibrate against each other and cause a short circuit. This appears to be a real short cut in the manufacturing process.
 
Looking at the picture in post #76, does anyone else see what I see? The windings are not wound in a uniform way , but the biggest weakness I see is that there is no resin applied to the coils of wire. With no resin to hold the windings in place, they are going to vibrate against each other and cause a short circuit. This appears to be a real short cut in the manufacturing process.

The 3 Phase Stators we have been using for about 6 years now in our PMA Systems are all wound similarly, however, I will pass this feedback along to my suppliers and see what their thoughts on it are. It hasn't been an issue in the past, however it can't hurt to see if it's something to look into.
 
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Punkskalar...........................Are you suggesting that the PMA stators you sell, have not had any issues over the last 6 years?

Here's a picture of a typical Japanese stator, that was made by Nippon Denso (picture courtesy of Mrriggs). Notice the generous amount of resin that is used to insulate and stabilize the windings.
Nippon Denso stator.jpg
 
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