Making your own swing arm bushings ?

I am courious , I have seen that a few of you have lathes handy and I was wondering if any of you have made your own bronze bushings for the swing arm..... if so what did you use as a starting place?
a bronze rod or perhaps bronze bushings from the hardware store and cut them to fit ?
i am thinking about trying my hand at the latter , and if you've done that already what size bushings did you buy ? and where ?
thanks !
Bob...........

Hi Bob,
those are flanged bushings and the good ones have a helical grease groove in their bores.
Yes, anyone with even a small amount of training and the use of a machinist's lathe could make a set of bushings.
But the cost of the bronze bar stock to make them out of is liable to be more than you'd pay for a bearing kit.
Alternatively, you could look for bronze (or oilite or teflon coated) straight bushings and separate thrust washers
in bearing catalogs.

Follow the links in this thread:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/swingarm-bushings.44458/

It's just not worth the time to do it.

bighairyralph : hummm OK that seams to be the consensis here....
I'm a guy that has the time ....just not the money if I attempt it I'll take a bunch of pictures LOL
right now i'm feeling lazy so I dunno ....
thanks 2M for the link seams repairing the rear swing arm has been done allot here....
it looks to be a fairly critical FIT however and Me and my lathe are not very accurate.... i can get things down to .001 but it's a very slow proccess
I could do it..... but I think i am leaning toward buying the bushings and seals instead and just do it the easy way.
..... the thing is I could have it done long before I get the money up to buy the parts ! LOL
poverty SUX ! oh well such is life !
thanks fer the help !
Bob...........

[/QUOTE]
- - - thing is, I could have it done long before I get the money up to buy the parts ! LOL
poverty SUX ! oh well such is life !
thanks fer the help !
Bob...........[/QUOTE]

Hi Bob,
thing is, you could only make those bushings if you already had a chunk of bronze bar to make them out of
because buying that much bearing bronze will cost more than buying the rebuild kit.
OTOH, you do have a lathe. And I have a theory that the XS650's swingarm pivot problem ain't the bushings at all, it's the pivot's "less than optimal"
(that's polite for "bloody stupid") design.
The pivot's bearing sleeve is supposed to be locked solid into the frame by tightening the through bolt.
Mostly the through bolt relaxes enough that the bearing sleeve turns with the swingarm instead.
Now that the bearing sleeve is turning with the swingarm there ain't gonna be any bushing wear because there's no rotation to cause it.
The Swingarm is now pivoting on the ~ 0.030" gap between the through bolt and the bearing sleeve's inside diameter.
And that's a bad thing.
A guy with a lathe could make a length of solid steel bar the exact dimensions of the swingarm bearing sleeve and tap it either M16 fine thread or 5/8"UNF
each end. Then grind the through bolt head stop block off the frame and reassemble the swingarm with an M16 (or 5/8" UNF) Allen head bolt each side reefed up real tight. Betcha that sucker ain't gonna turn with the swingarm.

ok.... if I understand it correctly the bearing sleeve that goes through the buhings that the swing arm bolt goes through.... is just barely long enough to go in there and when the bolt id tight it squeezes it between the end of the swing arm....locking it in place.... havn't looked at the exploded diagram of this thnig lately , I may well remember it wrong ! .... what gets me on this terrible design is the seals that can't possably work for very long and if they do
you can't force greese in there because the greese slips past the seals real easily only getting a tiny amount of greese in there to cover the Whole bushing... not a good thing at all..... however I call this thing a terrable design, but in truth it is a clever solution for a really difficult setup to make the rear swing arm removeable yet still be a perfect fit..... i don't have a better design...... YET ....
I remember having trouble with the swingarm of a Honda 500-4 letting off the throttle one time sen me off the road into the pee gravle and down I went..... when I pulled it appart the PO had really messed things up nothing was put back the way it should have been and I just gave up on it... I didn't like the bike anyway because it was like riding a refrigerator !!!!! I wound up putting it back together the way it should have been and it was considerably better ,...... and I sold it ! ( traided it actually for a Yamaha 850 Verago to a bike shop.)
the design of the Swing arm mandates a sleve and bolt that can be removed....its the end play that seams to be the trouble spot not to mention it pivoting on the bolt and not the bearings...there has got to be a better solution, but having so little room to work with ,.... I dunno !
... I suppose the one long bolt could be replaced by 2 shorter bolts and a shorter bearing sleve on each side but the results are still the same
the weak point is making the bearing sleve tight and you would weaken the unit as a whole if you replaced it with 2 bolts.
i think the best move is not modify it , but simply replace the goofie plastic bushings with something more durrable ! and leave it at that !
.....
Bob...........

Also.... I never thought about buying the bronze stock and cutting them down because the bronze stock is very expensive... what I was thinking was just go to the hardware store and see if I can find bronze bushings of the same length and I.D. but thicker than needed... and then just chuck them up in the lathe and trim them down to tollarance.... that way i'ed be $5.00 a pop at most and just re use everything else.....
.... I am a RE-USE fella... I pulled the cylinders and side plate off my XS and never had to buy a single gasket .... ( i do have a small oil leak at the right cam seal.... though but I am hoping it will go away when it's been ran a few times.(probly not!)) i did make a cylinder base gasket from a cerial box though...
other than that Indian head gasket cement , that uuugly brown stuff is all I used to put 'er back together with .
I may have to order bushings from McMaster and Car if I go this route.... and if that's the case I'ed be far better off to buy them from Mikes XS
but on the off chance the hardware store has bushings that are CLOSE .... I wil go that route .... what are my chances 2000:1 ? or Higher ? LOL
..... LOL could weld the darn thing in place and make a bobber out of it ! LOL..... it'ed look stock but ride like a truck ! HAHAHAH! ( whats the point?)
.....thanks for the input guys
its greatly appreaciated !
Bob........

Fredintoon: I didn't mean to ignore you, ! but you have a real good idea there.... the trick would be finding the right size bushings
..... maybe I could turn down 1" galvinized water pipe and then sell the bike real quick ! LOL (that would be MEAN !!!!)
I've made bushings from flattened copper tubing bent around a shaft before...they work but are kind'a soft......
how about fill the Hole where the bushing is supposed to be with BB's ???? ..... Nah! then you'ed get arrested for peppering the people behind ya !
.....I know make them out'a hard wood and varnish them all up make them real purdy and then hide them inside the swing arm..... no bad idea....
Make your own roller bearings from cut off nails ???? ( been there done that before) it might allow slop side to side though...another bad idea....
how about do it the right way and forget all this make it your self BS ? LOL
Bob.........

The better design is roller bearings....not made from nails.

LOL what you don't like Nails ? Nails are our friends !!!!
but thanks for the input anyway ! HAHAHAHAH !
Bob......

Hi Bob,
about the redesign,
40+ years as a machine designer tells me that a rolling element bearing with 15º or less rotation works WORSE than a plain bearing, not better.
And your list of shadetree substitutes didn't mention the classic spiral-wrap of old toothpaste tubes.
I mean, you can scrounge them off the city dump if you backswood guys don't brush your teeth, eh?
Seriously though, a solid shaft that bolts into the frame has a far better chance of staying locked in place than the stock design does.
My post #6 explains the details.
And the tortuous grease path?
The stock design has a grease nipple at both ends of the throughbolt.
The throughbolt has Tee holes that feeds grease into the gap between the throughbolt and the bore of the bearing sleeve.
The bearing sleeve has holes that (finally!) feed grease into the bushings.
What I did when I replaced my second stock (busted off) M14-ended throughbolt with a Suzi M16-ended throughbolt (which ain't drilled at all)
was to bypass all that convoluted grease path by tapping the swingarm crosstube M6 and threading a grease nipple in there so the grease goes
directly to where it's needed.

Bob did you buy the second spark plug yet?

Shush gggGary ! you know better than that.... it's failing already and Wanting replaced but I figure I got at least 2 short rides left in that sparkplug before it gives up completely !!!!!!! LOL..... ( besides I havn't left the house in a week ! )
.....
Hay there Fredintoon ! ..... the way you explained that is just the way I feel about PLASTIC bushings and parts...no-good, no-how!
I never thought about the greese path but yah that is kind'a a poor design and that promotes it turning on the bolt not the bearing sleve
i like your soultion though ! put in new Zirks where they should be...not the bolt and weaken the bolt! ....
where would I get a bolt like that ? any idea... I think I'll slowly start gathern up the parts for the OVERHAUL ! HA !
.....
Bob......

BoB, I rebuilt my swingarm once with new plastic bushings, not a fun time. Then I swiped those bushings for a Maxim, not a fun time either. Then I removed the TX650A swing arm again before cutting the frame for a hard tail, worse than before, no usable parts emerged from that experience. Leave the swing arm alone, cut the frame for a hard tail, makes sense to me now.

Scott

LOL you may well have the best idea yet mrtwowheel ! I just read Oddjobs build thread on his Bobber and it really looks cool hard tail and all
but I can't help but wonder if my bones might shatter after 30 minutes on one of those or not ! roads around here are not soft roads ! they have chuckholes in some of them that you drive into and out of !!!!!!
another thing worries me about Bobbers.....can they corner ? do they handle at all ? I dunno never road one ! LOL
....
Bob...........

Hay Fredintoon...you probably have a smart answer for this..... why do they call them Bobbers anyway ????

Uh-oh. Better don yer combat armor.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/do-bobbers-handle.34631/

Bob Kelly III said:

Hay Fredintoon...you probably have a smart answer for this..... why do they call them Bobbers anyway ????

Click to expand...

Hi Bob,
because those that build 'em these days ain't educated enough to spell "retrograde abortion"?
But the guys who bought ex-military bikes just after WW2 called their bikes bobbers because they "bobbed" every last unneccessary part off them to save weight.
That's not "Bob" after you, Bob but "Bob" as in a lady's short haircut.
Like this little rhyme from the 1920s sez:-
"If skirts become much shorter" said the Flapper, with a sob,
"I'll have two more cheeks to powder and a lot more hair to bob."
& BTW, a rigid frame motorcycle can have superb handling.
My 1937 KSS Velocette was (of course) a rigid frame machine and it cornered like it was on rails. So long as it was cornering on smooth blacktop.
Cornering on bumps and potholes was a different story because you'd have to ride standing on the 'pegs to save your spine from collapsing.

HAHAH ! well I'm all about removing unnessarry parts...even some things that are only occasionally nessarry !!!!
.... Right now I have a Pic of someones black Bobber on my desktop background.... ....Keeps me focused! LOL
it has the swing arm and rear shocks but looks like he laid the rear shocks down a bit with the top of the shocks closer to the seat....
No fender on the back,( that will never do! and a whisper of a fender on the front....ain't happening on mine!)
but the rest looks purty darn nice !
I should get out there and pull the carbs ONE LAST TIME..... and get those choke /enricher circuits working properly
then if and when I ever get a better seat she will be good to go !....
but it's 2:34am and I'm on my first cup of coffee and I think I need another one ! LOL today is going to be a long day I'm sure ! HA!
......
sleeping disorder ? No way ! I have a being awake disorder ! thats a different thing ! HAHAHAHHA!
....
OOOOh Fred a 1937 Velocette ? I'ed kill for one of those ! LOL
i almost got a 1937 harley when I was in highschool.... Dad and the money wouldn't go for it.. but that would have been sweet it was a small one
of some kind..... it wound up many years later as a centerpiece in Cycle salvage in Redding Ca. !
....
super old bikes I really like! the pre-war ones are the best but almost unrideable !
later all !
Bob........

Yes 2M..... I see what you mean ....NOW !!!! thanks for the Link ! LOL
I havn't seen shit like that sense the Rotary wing forum ! and I've never gone back !
..... a change of direction is in order Me thinks before I incite a war here !
I was mainly thinking on IMPROVING the bikes handling charturaistics..... you know getting the COG lower, perhaps changing the trail in the front to get away from the "Fall in the turn" syndrome but retaining enough ground clearance to be able to lean hard enough to shed rubber of of both tires in a turn if I so desire...
.....
Now I know the stearing head angle has too much trail for good cornering....(for me anyway)
there are a few ways to combat this, one is a smaller tire in the front,..... and raise the rear suspension.
the other is a cut and re weld of the stearing head angle...... but by how much is the daunting question !
if we look at the best raceing machines out there it might give us an idea of the right geometry for the front end and might not because tire size is usually smaller on them than what comes stock on the XS..... their 2 completely different machine types after all !
that being said, does anyone have access to stearing head angles on some of the bikes that are known to handle real well ?
I used to have all that stuff years ago but lost it in a house fire on the ranch.... I think a triumph Bonyville is a close compairison maybe the tiger 650
not sure, the early ones say '65 or so, up to about 1971 I think before they changes their angles ike all the bike makers did for freeway crusing.
....
anyway I think Lowering the seat, changing the head angle , wider tires too perhaps and all around ballance is the way to go to make it a great corner carver.....
what do you guys think ????
Bob...........