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Robert M. Pirsig
- Thread starter kopcicle
- Start date
Thought I'd purged the memory of that self-absorbed SNAG from my brain along with recollections of the wretched '68 Bonnevil (no, that's no typo) I owned, but it seems the recall was only dormant. Thanks a lot, Dennis. May ravens shred your wiring.
DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
Thank you for posting that. He seems to have suffered much, I hope he has found his peace. From the Wikipedia page for Zen:
Pirsig is capable of seeing the beauty of technology and feels good about mechanical work, where the goal is "to achieve an inner peace of mind". The book demonstrates that motorcycle maintenance may be dull and tedious drudgery or an enjoyable and pleasurable pastime; it all depends on attitude.
Pirsig is capable of seeing the beauty of technology and feels good about mechanical work, where the goal is "to achieve an inner peace of mind". The book demonstrates that motorcycle maintenance may be dull and tedious drudgery or an enjoyable and pleasurable pastime; it all depends on attitude.
'69 myself and I agree it was less about Motorcycle mechanics and zen of any kind .
Self absorbed or not it is a part of motorcycling .
R.I.P. Robert Pirsig
Self absorbed or not it is a part of motorcycling .
R.I.P. Robert Pirsig
pago cruiser
XS650 Addict
RIP indeed. Rather a storied life. An IQ of 170? A bona fide brainiac. I liked this:
"You see things vacationing on a motorcycle in a way that is completely different from any other."
He nailed it. I remember reading this in high school! May have to find another copy.
Another piece of our time in history is gone.
Sigh.
"You see things vacationing on a motorcycle in a way that is completely different from any other."
He nailed it. I remember reading this in high school! May have to find another copy.
Another piece of our time in history is gone.
Sigh.
theDQG
XS650 Addict
To be sure, the whole motorcycle/zen thing was just a hook, meant to draw you in. Wasn't long before he was off on a tangent about his struggles with mental illness and his search for a hard truth.
I'm sure his approach to motorcycles irritated more than a few motorcycle purists- his knowledge pretty much never got past valve clearances (the whole tappet thing) and his making a big deal out of rejetting for high altitude riding probably got a few eyes rolling. It also felt more that he used motorcycles as an excuse to go through a brief history of western philosophy (dividing the motorcycle into "components" and "functions") and as a launching pad for his quest.
The one thing I'll give him is that the book, in the end, was really a genuine search for truth, for something bigger than life, and a question he attempted to settle with a definition of "quality" as something existing prior (and gave him comfort that there was something to life that was permanent).
I'm sure his approach to motorcycles irritated more than a few motorcycle purists- his knowledge pretty much never got past valve clearances (the whole tappet thing) and his making a big deal out of rejetting for high altitude riding probably got a few eyes rolling. It also felt more that he used motorcycles as an excuse to go through a brief history of western philosophy (dividing the motorcycle into "components" and "functions") and as a launching pad for his quest.
The one thing I'll give him is that the book, in the end, was really a genuine search for truth, for something bigger than life, and a question he attempted to settle with a definition of "quality" as something existing prior (and gave him comfort that there was something to life that was permanent).
RIP, Read it but guess it didn't resonate much, maybe because I was too busy wrenching and riding? I read a bunch of the Carlos Castanada books too. LOL
Stardust83
XS650 Enthusiast
I've read his books several times - hard read but some very rewarding nuggets are tucked away. Many passages must be read several times and mulled upon before really touching the surface of what he expresses. A very complicated troubled person and yet there was a peace about him.
I think I got about 3/4 through that book and just gave up. It was too deep and obscure for my simple brain.
I read it two and a half times, the half time when I was 16...
Last I looked, it was available online free, and I doubt he would have objected, whether he encouraged it or not. Can't say I ever totally figured the book out, but did find some remarkable things in it and enjoyed the overall atmosphere very much. There are critiques which might aid in understanding.
Last I looked, it was available online free, and I doubt he would have objected, whether he encouraged it or not. Can't say I ever totally figured the book out, but did find some remarkable things in it and enjoyed the overall atmosphere very much. There are critiques which might aid in understanding.
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theDQG
XS650 Addict
Carlos Castanada.. read his books a dozen times easily. The question will always remain.. did Don Juan really exist?
Sad day.
Pirsig's first and brilliant book was difficult to read because, as I understood him, he was extraordinarily obsessive (not mentally ill). I think that he was hospitalized and "treated" with ECT because those around him didn't have the patience to sit with him and try to comprehend his unconventional thoughts. Reading the Zen book, as I have done many times, requires an obsessive dedication to trying to understand where he was "coming from". That book is the most often required reading by college professors in history, for good reason. I first read it as an assigned text for a philosophy course ("Philosophy and Psychology") at Syracuse University as an undergrad in the 70's and last worked through it 4 months ago.
He sometimes responded to letters from readers, but they eventually multiplied to many millions, so Pirsig was unable to reply to my heartfelt inquiry, or to the others.
I believe that the Zen book was meant to be a story about his relationship with his son, primarily, but his intense intellectual interests got the best of him.
Sad day.
Pirsig's first and brilliant book was difficult to read because, as I understood him, he was extraordinarily obsessive (not mentally ill). I think that he was hospitalized and "treated" with ECT because those around him didn't have the patience to sit with him and try to comprehend his unconventional thoughts. Reading the Zen book, as I have done many times, requires an obsessive dedication to trying to understand where he was "coming from". That book is the most often required reading by college professors in history, for good reason. I first read it as an assigned text for a philosophy course ("Philosophy and Psychology") at Syracuse University as an undergrad in the 70's and last worked through it 4 months ago.
He sometimes responded to letters from readers, but they eventually multiplied to many millions, so Pirsig was unable to reply to my heartfelt inquiry, or to the others.
I believe that the Zen book was meant to be a story about his relationship with his son, primarily, but his intense intellectual interests got the best of him.
Sad day.
I think I got about 3/4 through that book and just gave up. It was too deep and obscure for my simple brain.
Yup - me too. I read it back in the 1970's - and I am afraid that I just didn't get it.
However, tonight on the CBC radio program As it Happens, they had an item about Pirsig and they interviewed the journalist who had interviewed him for that same program about 40 years ago when the book was relatively new.
It was a fascinating look at a brilliant, but tragic guy.
Well stated. Both of his books are about actual journeys, one on a Honda 305 Superhawk through the Northwest, and the other on a boat through Upstate New York. However, the underlying journey was his extended struggle to express his outlook on life and machines, which he wanted to share with us.
Zedhead
XS650 Enthusiast
I read 'Zen' many years ago, and found it very hard work, but I got through to the end. stubbornly. I think I'd 'get it' more now, so it's time for another read. RIP Mr Pirsig.
Now, that's the spirit !
In fact, the Then Came Bronson series was based upon just that premise, that with death comes an opportunity for new adventure.
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queenslegs
XS650 Addict
That's an interesting way to think of it. My reaction was more Western, e.g. he basically thought he better wind down some before he ended up like his friend. Incidently I found the series to be very realistic, the biggest difference being I didn't have a new girlfriend in every episode, only about half of them. But I was a lot older than ol' Jim. Michael Parks is one of the best actors around. If he is recording an interview for say a motorcycle something he does it in the Bronson character. It is convincing in a way that you think that is his real personality, but he's one of the best actors and the characters he has played have no resemblance to each other. In fact he's very hard to recognize sometimes, like Sean Penn could be.
Yup, I can certainly see the Cowboy In the Western interpretation. And the pilot film, which I watch occasionally on DVD, told us the story of Bronson having an argument with his boss, telling him to F.Off, and cutting the strings from Working For the Man, a popular counterculture theme at the time. I think that the pilot film was the best of whole batch.
And he was a decent singer. "Born to Lose" :
"Well, hang in there..." will always be etched in my mind;
