On the road again at 40.............the bike that is

Ok, thanks gggGary, trying to track down some 6's. If no luck I'll order some. Will pop in a new set of plugs when I get home and put the timing light on to see if there is any improvement.

I have flare nut wrenches from back in the days when I bent, double flared and did my own brake lines. I'll check and see if they'll fit. Edit: Oops, see that was for Pete, well works for me too I guess.

Thanks again for all your help.

robinc said:

That's great news rg, thank you. 2x4's and benches I got. Can take the money for a welder and put it towards chain breaker, parts, etc.

Lots of reading to do and better get Han's book off the shelf.

Click to expand...

For the cam chain, you don't need a chain breaker either. I just used a cheap little grind stone that fits into the chuck of my portable drill. Its very simple to grind the 2 ends off of the master link on the cam chain.

While on the subject, don't buy a ring compressor either. Its very easy to install the pistons into the cylinders. Only tool I used was a popsicle stick. The bottom of the cylinders is chamfered, so the rings go right in . You install the pistons into the cylinders while the cylinders are upside down, on the bench. You leave the bottom of the pistons out of the cylinders. Then you slide the cylinder/piston combo horizontally onto the studs. Aline the con rod and piston and install the wrist pin and outer circ clip. The inner circ clip has been installed before putting the piston into the cylinder. Simple, and no chance of the cam chain falling down into the engine.

Cool - thx Gary.

Robin: I have a copy of Hans book you can borrow if you like.

Good method RG!

Great info rg, thanks again.

Got one Pete, thanks. Ordered it right away on release. Just skimmed it so far, time to 'read' it.
Oh, and lot's of pics that oil supply tube job eh?

Looks like I'm going in further than I ever expected at this point in time.

Just got some R6's, best I could find in town. I know some guys run the R7's all the time so until I get get an order in can't think the extra resistance is going to be a huge deal. Guess we'll see if there's enough spark left in the ol' girl.

No need to break the cam chain, to remove the head. Read the manual

Ok thanks gggGary. Will do tonight, haven't had a chance to get into that yet. Just figured that it might make sense to do the cam chain if I'm taking it apart. Maybe once things are opened up an inspection will indicate whether it's necessary or not.

Put in new BPR6ES plugs, timing issues still there but sitting in the shop isn't much of a test. Raining today, but if it's nice tomorrow I'll put some miles on.

Thanks again for everything.

Yeah, to replace it you need to break it, unless the crankcase is split. But even if you are going to replace it's nice to have the head and jugs off and the chain hanging over the front of the motor not above the abyss while sparks are flying.
Hydraulic clutch on the RSV got a full overhaul and new rear pads are in the Feejer, lift is open again.... A new rear tire just showed up......

I was thinking maybe a few hundred miles since it's been sitting so long might re-seat the rings and help, but then I saw you kinda had this problem years ago already before you parked it. So, a topend "refresh" is probably best. As long as you don't need to bore it, a couple hundred bucks should cover it (doing your own work). You may get by for even less if you shop around and get some good deals on some of the needed stuff.

How many miles on the motor? If anywhere near 20K, I'd recommend replacing the cam chain. I buy mine right from Yamaha now, cheaper than Mike's. I recommend getting the Tsubaki chain as opposed to the D.I.D. The couple I've gotten so far were split and did include a master link .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-94500-02106-00.html

As far as special tools go, there are a couple I consider worth having. Mike's sells them but now wants way, way, waaaaaay too much for them. You can get pretty much the same ones off eBay dirt cheap. Cam chain breaker and riveting tool .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-...374981?hash=item3d06a35ec5:g:LVsAAOSwB09YRnmW

As mentioned, you won't use the "breaking" feature much, if at all. Once you grind the riveted link pins flush, the plate easily pops off and the link comes right out. Valve spring compressor .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Over...218298?hash=item4d4f60afba:g:JCYAAOSw4GVYOP0e

You can dick around with an old big C-clamp but really, this is the best. This is a wonderful tool and I know because I've tried most of the others, including that pain-in-the-ass C-clamp thing.

For gaskets, here's a nice cheap set .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-72-84-Y...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

You don't get valve stem seals but here's some really nice ones, cheaper and better than the rubber ones from Mike's .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-XS65...m465e22d62c:m:mbU1xBxF7XosE83ruNnVprg&vxp=mtr

Wow, thanks for all the info 5twins. Man you guys really blow me away. I can't believe how lucky us newbs are that you guys are so willing to help.

Hope to pay it forward in the future.

Mileage 33844 Kms, 21029 miles. I think cam chain is stretched, can be a little tricky setting timing, especially on the right side (sometimes seem to almost run out of adjustment room) which is also the side that has the most erratic 'bounce' around.

I remember reading some of your posts in the past that at this point a new cam chain is recommended which is why I thought I might as well just suck it up and do it when the engines on the bench. Was going to look at Boats.net tonight to see what was available and you did it for me.....lol. Thank you. Anything I see on Boats.net I can get from a couple of Yamaha dealers here in town which saves the shipping and exchange. Don't know if that's always cheaper but I normally get parts in a couple of days coming from Toronto.

I guess there is no way of knowing if I need the tensioner until I get it apart, and then better hope not. I hear Mikes isn't exactly the best.
I was looking at Mikes/XSdirect at gaskets and the ones you list here are a lot better price. Would rather not use Mikes unless they are the last resort.

Need to get a right case gasket as well to do the starter gear clip fix. Guess I can do that with engine on or off the bike. Was thinking I would do it when it's on so I could spin it quick to test while there's still some oil to protect, but maybe if I did this first even if it's off the bike I could just jump the starter to test the clip tension.
I will look at that vendor and see if they have the right case gasket as well.

Have some more reading to do tonight, going through Han's manual now, then will do Haynes, Clymer and Factory.
Once my eyes are done,. I'll pull out the credit card and go shopping....lol.

Thanks again for all of this, I really do appreciate it.
Have a great night!

5twins said:

For gaskets, here's a nice cheap set .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-72-84-Y...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

You don't get valve stem seals but here's some really nice ones, cheaper and better than the rubber ones from Mike's .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-XS65...m465e22d62c:m:mbU1xBxF7XosE83ruNnVprg&vxp=mtr

Click to expand...

5twins, I've been searching the forum for info on my own impending engine work. I believe in recent posts you've recommended the full gasket sets such as the Athena available through Amazon. Better to go with this NOS top end kit? Are the included NOS rubber o-ring seals still good after all these years?

Robin, I'm pulling up a chair right alongside Mailman. Will be tuning in with much interest.

If you need (or want) all the engine gaskets then a full kit is the way to go, but for just a topend job this cheap kit is a real bargain. If you price the head gasket alone, you'll see it costs as much if not more. We just used one about a month ago and all the gaskets and o-rings seemed fine. A benefit to this kit is the head gasket is the same thickness as an original. The head gasket in the Athena kit is thicker. That reduces compression a little and supposedly that would reduce the power output slightly. I can't say me or my buddies really noticed this on the ones we used but with a fresh topend, of course they ran better than before, lol. We had fixed the leaky valves, leaky rings, cleaned the ports up with a Dremel, so better running was to be expected.

Some comments on that recent topend job I mentioned - we did it because the topend started making some strange (bad) noises. We had done it already probably 6 or 8 years ago. The problem was pretty easy to spot, even before we had the top cover off - the outer right cam bearing had gone bad. You could see metal chips in and around it once we pulled the advance housing off. Once removed from the cam and spun by hand, you could really tell. So, it appears it was nothing we had done with our earlier inside work, that stuff was still all fine. I don't know what, if anything, made the bearing go bad. I'm hoping it was just a 37 year old motor doing it's thing, lol.

We used a MikesXS front cam chain guide in the previous rebuild and thought that might have been the issue. Happily, that part was still fine, just like new even. It showed no wear/rub marks on the rubber and the strip was still firmly attached.

I tried something new on the gaskets. You're probably familiar with my recommendations of adding rings and lines of sealer to the head gasket as added insurance against leaks. The Griz recommends spray-on Copper Coat gasket sealer so I tried it. It works very well and is much easier than applying all the little rings and lines of sealer. I did both the head and base gasket. If you have one of the new Athena kits, the base gasket is supposedly already treated with some sort of heat activated sealer so this wouldn't be necessary. This older cheap gasket set obviously doesn't have sealer treated gaskets in it but their quality appears good. The kit is made in Japan so I'm hoping it is.

Thank you. More tips to squirrel away...

DanielBlack said:

Robin, I'm pulling up a chair right alongside Mailman. Will be tuning in with much interest.

Click to expand...

OK, DB, Thanks, Wish you guys were going first on this one.....lol.

5twins, tools, gaskets, seals ordered. Thank you again for all that info. Looks like a week to 10 days for everything to get here.
Will order the cam chain and exhaust pipe gaskets from a local Yamaha dealer tomorrow. Will pick up a valve lapper, compound and some spray on Copper Gasket Sealer at Canadian Tire. Also after reading aldo5468's suggestion in Hyde's 'Mikes Valve Tappets' thread I thought I might add these to my Yamaha order. What do you think?



Hope you don't get too far ahead of me gggGary., I would really like to be able to work the timing out on this to be tracking alongside what your doing. Well see how it goes I guess. This week is busy for me but I will have the engine out by the time all my goodies arrive. Will have a little more flexibility then. Maybe I can get a few more rides in too....lol. Although I'm afraid to push my luck with the timing being as erratic as it is.

Today's good news. Put in BPR6ES plugs as gggGary suggested yesterday and got out and rode today for about 2 1/2 hours.......Nice getting some bugs in me teeth again! Put over 70 highway miles on. First time the old girl has been up to 110 in 10 years. KPH that is.
At anything above idle she runs great but still a little wonky at idle sometimes. I can almost feel my advance assembly hanging sometimes and then dropping the idle down. Pamco and E-advance will be nice.

Here is a pic of my leaking gaskets after today's ride. Both gaskets are leaking all the way around. I have not done head bolt re torque as I wanted to see if and where it would leak. Guess we answered that one. Gonna get re torqued soon.



Also a pic of the plugs after today's run.



So I'm getting organized for major surgery here. Had an awesome ride today, and pushed it a little further than I intended, but felt like she was telling me I could trust her. It will be nice to have this next step over and know without any nagging doubts she's good.

Oh, and those original stock grips gotta go!

Dang Robin , I'm excited for you! All your prep and planning, ordering the parts, the anticipation of doing something new. You're moving right along on this. I got a feeling you will be riding your refurbished bike before winter at this pace. Good for you, get after it brother!

Let's hope so Bob or I'm going to have to edit the thread title to: On the road again at 41!

Back to my homework.....lol.

Trouble maker!

Sorry gggGary, looks like your about to get ahead of me!

Truth be told, pretty much every one of these bikes can benefit from a topend job now even if they're running OK, mainly due to their age. The rubber valve guide seals are failing on many and so is the front cam chain guide. On many, it's just a blown out head gasket. It's really not a hard job. This motor is pretty simple to work on. As with any motor, there are a few little tricks and "gotcha's", but they've all been documented pretty well, and we'll mention them again for you when you get to those spots.

That's awesome 5twins, thank you.

Got confirmations today that the gaskets, seals and tools you recommended have been shipped. Went to the local Yamaha dealer I use and cam chain and those valve adjusters are back ordered at the Canadian warehouse for 4 plus weeks so I ordered them from boats.net. Still waiting for ETA.

Man, you guys south of the 49th sure are lucky.

Reading Gordon's thread some more came across the valve lapping compound you like 5twins,
http://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/clovercompound1.html

$8.95 USD = $11.19 CDA, OK. but shipping = $66.25. Total = $77.44. Checked Amazon.ca and eBay.ca, not much better, $54.09 and $51.87.

We have some racing/performance/stock car building shops here in town, so gonna have to find some time and hit the bricks.

Now I fully realize that my lost time cost will be more than that but it's the principle ain't it?