Electrical problems...

Christine79xs

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Montreal, Canada
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So hi everyone, I'm new here and just bought my first xs650 (1979 xs650sf). I have a few questions, so I changed the battery and the spark plugs on Wednesday and the bike fired right up with the electric start, yay! (Electric start wasn't working when starting cold when I purchased the bike) so yesterday when I went to start her up I smelt some burning wires eek! So I pulled the seat off, removed the battery and the gas tank and found my burning wire, the black wire coming from the connector of the rectifier, I followed the wire up to the connection in the wiring harness (which seems new part number 2mo-82590-51-00) the wire after the connection seems fine and the wired from the rectifier to the white connection see ok as well. I would say by the look of it the rectifier is origial. Could it be that the black wire that burned maybe just had a bad connection at the crimp? Also after I pulled the tank I see a Boyer bransden igniter box would that mean that whoever added that changed the whole ignition system? Now should I change my rectifier? If so which one would you guys recommend? I can't order from Mike's because I'm up in Canada.

Thanks for reading
Christine
 
Christine,

Don't panic! Kinda hard to see from the photos but I assume the Boyer is the item inside the foam sandwich in photo #2. Photo #3 is the female end of the wiring connector going to the rectifier and it appears that is where the short circuit occurred. By finding the backside tab on the burnt connector you can depress it with a small flat screw driver and withdraw the burnt union out of the plastic shell to repair it. Won't cost much to try. I don't think much of the cold union in photo #4 and at a minimum would tape it or otherwise protect it from accidental shorts.
Long answer short, I'd attempt a repair before I started throwing money at it. Other, smarter people will come along soon to help advise.

roy
 
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Welcome........That join is a bit busy, was that in the original loom or do you think the PO, (previous owner), done it. ................For a short on the earth wire there has to be some power getting into the earth/ground wire............. Looks like the fault came from the other side of that connector...........Is the rectifier original? pics of the other connector and rectifier..........

Scroll down to KIT 00303 mean't to be for an XS650. may help to identify your Boyer
http://www.boyerbransden.com/instructions.html

Did you buy the bike off a member here...........may help if he done his build on here, for any information about what was done to it........not to diss, to help
 
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That burn on the 6 wire plastic connector is a common thing when the connections get dirty, if you caught it soon enough maybe nothing got hurt. The fix for that on GoldWings, similar alternators, is to hard wire those wires without the connection block.

Scott
 
Christine,

Don't panic! Kinda hard to see from the photos but I assume the Boyer is the item inside the foam sandwich in photo #2. Photo #3 is the female end of the wiring connector going to the rectifier and it appears that is where the short circuit occurred. By finding the backside tab on the burnt connector you can depress it with a small flat screw driver and withdraw the burnt union out of the plastic shell to repair it. Won't cost much to try. I don't think much of the cold union in photo #4 and at a minimum would tape it or otherwise protect it from accidental shorts.
Long answer short, I'd attempt a repair before I started throwing money at it. Other, smarter people will come along soon to help advise.

roy
That's exactly what I planning.. A repair to start, then if it happens again I know it's somewhere else
 
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Welcome........That join is a bit busy, was that in the original loom or do you think the PO, (previous owner), done it. ................For a short on the earth wire there has to be some power getting into the earth/ground wire............. Looks like the fault came from the other side of that connector...........Is the rectifier original? pics of the other connector and rectifier..........

Scroll down to KIT 00303 mean't to be for an XS650. may help to identify your Boyer
http://www.boyerbransden.com/instructions.html

Did you buy the bike off a member here...........may help if he done his build on here, for any information about what was done to it........not to diss, to help
I don't think she messed with the harness, it seems like it was the original tape. The wires and the rectifier definitely seem original to the bike. I didn't buy it off someone here I bought it local and the girl didn't really seem to know what was done to it :(
 
I would be removing the rectifier, test it.............on the points model bikes there is a cheap rectifier replacement that is an easy fix...........your going to need to replace that rectifier connector..........its crap, plastic is disintegrating, corrosion on the pins....throwaway.

Some one may be able to give you the correct information on using an bridge rectifier with the boyer unit.

Looking for a pic.........back soon
 
These http://www.ebay.com/itm/151314178350?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT are a good replacement for factory or aftermarket MikesXS/650Direct rectifiers...........lots of savings as well..............

A lot of us have also used and replace the factory regulator with automotive regulators that are reliable and cheaper than the aftermarket suppliers.
Scroll down to post #45 http://www.xs650.com/threads/just-stranded-voltage-regulator-rectifier-smoking.47582/page-3 ..........Take note a lot of us use the VR115, VR295 regulators. The pic in that post is a new one 5twins got onto. ..........big savings

Again get some advice if it will work with your Boyer
 
If your 1979 has the stock alternator, stock rectifier and stock regulator, here is my recommendation.
The stock rectifier is a flat plate that is mounted under the battery box. The stock regulator is mounted on the left side of the bike. It has a metal can with a green resistor mounted on its side. Both of these items are old technology and worn out after all these years. Its best to replace both the rectifier and the regulator.

Yes you can buy the 6 pin and 4 pin plastic connectors from XS650direct. A 6 pin is good for the rectifier and a 4 pin is good for the regulator. Do not buy a rectifier or regulator from XS650direct.
Several members have had success using the Windynation 35 amp 3 phase rectifier. Its sold from Ventura California for about $10.99 USD. If the Windynation rectifier does not have a heat sink, you will have to add one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/35-AMP-3-THREE-PHASE-BRIDGE-RECTIFIER-WIND-/261313978134

Avoid buying the very cheap Chinese 3 phase rectifiers found on E-bay for $4 or $5. They are poor quality and fail quickly.

For your 1979, assuming it has the stock alternator, you should buy a VR-115 regulator (or equivalent). Its an automotive regulator and can be bought on E-bay for around $30 to $50 USD, so shop around.

Here's an older thread with more information, that shows how to wire the VR-115:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/regulator-rectifier.21485/
 
So little update for everyone... I re grounded my recitifier and found another fried ground coming from my generator. Re grounded that one as well and changed a couple of connectors, I found that who ever did work on my bike for the po did not correctly ground the battery. I fixed that and pouff everything seems to be working well! Yay! Now to find out why I have so much smoke when starting, I figure valve seals or rings. Thanks again for everyone's advice, you guys are awesome!
 
Is the smoke only when starting, and goes away quickly? How many kms are on the engine? Perhaps you should do a compression test.
There is about 38000km on it, I was planning to do a compression test this week. It seems as if it's only coming from the right cylinder and only when revving the engine. I'll try and get a video tomorrow :)
 
White smoke from an air cooled motor, usually just indicates that you had condensation in your exhaust system. When the engine starts and heats up, the condensed water turns to steam which is white. That would be much more common in Montreal than in Calgary. The higher humidity in Montreal means more condensation, and especially when the air temperature has turned colder.

If the white smoke goes away after 15 or 20 minutes of riding, its not a concern.
 
Hi Christine:

I agree with all the great advice above - and would just add that white (indicates moisture) or blue (may be oil burning) smoke from an XS650, may not be a big deal.

The fact is that these bikes LIKE to be ridden and so while I would definitely monitor the oil level carefully - I would ride it a fair distance before deciding to dig into the engine. My '76 Standard (the infamous Lucille - because she is red) was resurrected from 15-20 years in a barn last June and and she smoked blue a fair bit right after I got her running. After 14 months and more than 5000 km (!!!), she runs better every day. She doesn't leak or burn a drop of oil now and can buzz down the 401 at...well, pretty darned fast - with no problems.

In addition to the excellent advice you've received above, I would also check on, and do a few other things:
  • get yourself a good service manual (NOTE: they are downloadable for free - just search on this site);
  • get yourself a set of Vessel brand JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screwdrivers - looks like Phillips - but they are different and they will NOT strip the screw-heads on your bike). These drivers are also handy for working on Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Canon cameras, Sony stereos, etc. etc. They are readily available on Amazon for around $30-40/set and everyone who rides or drives a Japanese bike or car should have a set, IMO;
  • check your alternator brushes (these live inside the round "YAMAHA" cover on the LH side of the engine - no oil in there so don't worry about a mess);
  • check your petcocks (the fuel valves on the bottom of the fuel tank (they should be shut off each time you park the bike);
  • I would replace the tires, tubes and rim-tapes for safety (unless they're newer than 5 years old and have lots of tread - get a bike shop to do this job);
  • I would check the brake pad thickness and have a look at the fluid to ensure that it is fresh and clean (rebuilding calipers and master cylinders is cheap and easy - but DO NOT get brake fluid on anything painted or in your eyes as it is pretty corrosive stuff).
You will find a good thread on alternator brushes on this Forum - it is an easy job to check and change them - even beside the road, in the rain, at night, with a wet, angry girl/boyfriend standing by...(please don't ask how I know this).

The key point is that there is NOTHING that will happen to your bike that at least half of us on this forum have not already experienced and solved and so don't worry about getting the answers or finding parts. On the matter of finding parts:
  • Your local Yamaha dealer will have a lot of the nuts and bolts type things - and even seals, bearings and gaskets which are actually just standard industrial items. All you need is the Yamaha part number - see below for that. Don't go and ask for a part for a "1979 Yamaha XS650 Special" - instead - ask for the Yamaha part number and you may find that the very same part is still in use on a current or recent model and the dealer has it in-stock, or can get it quickly.
  • MikesXS Canadian affiliate is XS650 Direct in Stratford, ON. Opinions vary about MikesXS and XSDirect - I have found them to be generally good but other Forum members detest them. The advantage of XSDirect is that prices are reasonable - IMO, and they are very fast. I have ordered stuff many times before about 1:00 PM on one day and the parts have been delivered to my home in Windsor, ON, by 9:30 AM the next day;
  • www.boats.net - has a lot of vintage Yamaha parts - AND - they have exploded views of every part of the bike with a listing of the original Yamaha part numbers.
That original Yamaha part number is extremely useful information. If you need a part - just type the part number - with no other words or descriptors - into your Google search window and WAH-LA - you will likely find that somebody, somewhere has that EXACT part for sale - new and still in its original Yamaha factory package. These parts are referred to as NOS or New Old Stock - and they are the best way to fix your nice old bike. An NOS part is nearly always better than an aftermarket (MikesXS/XSDirect) part - and often the NOS stuff is cheaper. I got a very nice single piece clutch push-rod this way for around $7.00 USD.

About the only type of part that never seems to come up on-line are mufflers - but there are quite decent aftermarket systems available.

If you do buy something on-line from a US seller - always specify that the seller should send it via the US Postal Service (USPS) - as Canada Customs seldom tags packages coming through the mail but they nearly always snag courier (UPS / FEDEX etc.) stuff.

Anyhow - welcome to the site and be sure to ask lots of questions!

Cheers,

Pete
 
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Hi Christine:

I agree with all the great advice above - and would just add that white (indicates moisture) or blue (may be oil burning) smoke from an XS650 may not be a big deal.

The fact is that these bikes LIKE to be ridden and so while I would definitely monitor the oil level carefully - but I would ride it before deciding to dig into the engine. My '76 Standard (the infamous Lucille - because she is red) was resurrected from 15-20 years in a barn last June and and she smoked blue a fair bit right after I got her running. After 14 months and more than 5000 km (!!!), she runs better every day. She doesn't leak or burn a drop of oil now and can buzz down the 401 at...well, pretty darned fast - with no problems.

In addition to the excellent advice you've received above, I would also check on, and do a few other things:
  • get yourself a good service manual (NOTE: they are downloadable for free - just search on this site);
  • get yourself a set of Vessel brand JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screwdrivers - looks like Phillips - but they are different and they will NOT strip the screw-heads on your bike). These drivers are also handy for working on Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Canon cameras, Sony stereos, etc. etc. They are readily available on Amazon for around $30-40/set and everyone who rides or drives a Japanese bike or car should have a set, IMO;
  • check your alternator brushes (these live inside the round "YAMAHA" cover on the LH side of the engine - no oil in there so don't worry about a mess);
  • check your petcocks (the fuel valves on the bottom of the fuel tank (they should be shut off each time you park the bike);
  • I would replace the tires, tubes and rim-tapes for safety (unless they're newer than 5 years old and have lots of tread - get a bike shop to do this job);
  • I would check the brake pad thickness and have a look at the fluid to ensure that it is fresh and clean (rebuilding calipers and master cylinders is cheap and easy - but DO NOT get brake fluid on anything painted or in your eyes as it is pretty corrosive stuff).
You will find a good thread on alternator brushes on this Forum - it is an easy job to check and change them - even beside the road, in the rain, at night, with a wet, angry girl/boyfriend standing by...(please don't ask how I know this).

The key point is that there is NOTHING that will happen to your bike that at least half of us on this site have not already experienced and solved and so don't worry about getting the answers or finding parts. On the matter of finding parts:
  • Your local Yamaha dealer will ahve a lot of the nuts and bolts type things - and even seals and gaskets which are actually just standard industrial items. All you need is the Yamaha part number - see below for that. Don't go and ask for a part for a "1980 Yamaha XS650 Special - instead - ask for the part number and you may find that the same part is still in use on a current or recent model and the dealer has it in-stock or can get it quickly.
  • MikesXS Canadian affiliate is XS650 Direct in Stratford, ON. Opinions vary about MikesXS and XSDirect - I have found them to be generally good but other Forum members detest them. The advantage of XSDirect is that they are very fast - I have ordered stuff many times before about 1:00 PM on one day and the parts have been delivered to my home in Windsor, ON, by 9:30 AM the next day;
  • www.boats.net - has a lot of vintage Yamaha parts - AND - they have exploded views of every part of the bike with a listing of the original Yamaha part numbers.
That original Yamaha part number is extremely useful information. If you need a part - just type the part number - with no other words or descriptors - into your Google search window and WAH-LA - you will likely find that somebody, somewhere has that EXACT part for sale - new and still in its original Yamaha factory package. These parts are referred to as NOS or New Old Stock - and they are the best way to fix your nice old bike. An NOS part is nearly always better than an aftermarket (MikesXS/XSDirect) part - and often the NOS stuff is cheaper. I got a very nice single piece clutch push-rod this way for around $7.00 USD.

About the only type of part that never seems to come up on-line are mufflers - but there are quite decent aftermarket systems available.

If you do buy something on-line from a US seller - always specify that the seller should send it via the US Postal Service (USPS - as Canada Customs seldom tags packages coming through the mail but they nearly always snag courier (UPS / FEDEX etc.) stuff.

Anyhow - welcome to the site and be sure to ask lots of questions!

Cheers,

Pete

Thanks so much for all this info! I'll check all this out. I just took my bike out and she doesn't seem to be smoking while driving. My next thing was to check the brushes, the tread on my tires seem to be good and my breaks were changed right before I bought the bike.. I checked my break fluid and the front seemed a bit cloudy so I'd like to bleed them out and refill with clean break fluid. This winter I plan on re wiring the bike and do check a lot of other stuff but I just want to be able to squeeze some time on the road before the snow gets here :) thanks again for all the info I really appreciate it!
 
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