Rear shocks on a hardtail?

This is my bike.. Just for reference.

Hi bobby,
as it's nowhere near April 1st I assume you are not simply winding us up, eh?
Some basic terms here:-
The bike in your photo has a rigid frame and the process of converting a sprung frame into a rigid frame is called "hardtailing"
Thus, the modified XS650 in the photo is called a "hardtail" to distinguish it from a 16H Norton "rigid"
And you want to put shiny chrome spring shocks somewhere on your hardtail just for show?
Ah well, it takes all sorts.
Hang 'em off a sissybar like a trophy?
Or use them to support the seat in place of the hard-to-see shock that's there now?
Me and your Chiropractor would both suggest buying a titled unmolested swingarm frame and swapping your bike into it.
 
I've had random thoughts about it before, just because I like rear suspensions, but usually think more brat-style bikes look a bit cluttered and uneven. The only way it'd realistically be possible, is if you were to fit some type of hinge to the bottom portion of your frame at the chainstays, up closer to your battery. Then you would need to cut out a portion between the axle and rear seat to fit the rear shocks. I feel like if you can weld and have the steel and some bushings, there's no reason it couldn't be done. You'd basically just be turning the bottom portion of your frame into the swingarm.

I've seen mountain bikes with similar arrangements. They appear to be hardtails, but there's a smaller rubber bushing right behind the seat post, and usually the bottom of those frames just flex, and don't actually pivot, but it's the same idea. I can't find a good picture because I don't remember what bikes they were, but this picture was the closest I found in my 10 second google image search.

FON9V90G145SEIT.MEDIUM.jpg


Now the one remaining thing you'd have to sort out, is if you were to fit a pivot point at the bottom of your frame, the rear axle wouldn't be moving perpendicular to the chainline, which means your chain would get tighter and looser every time the suspension compressed. That would also mean that every time you gave the bike some gas or let off the gas, it would compress or expand the rear suspension somewhat, affecting the handling of your bike. Overall, I think that part alone would be enough to make the whole project a bad idea.
 
When people make hardtails, they usually just start with a normal xs650, chop off the rear of the frame , and weld the hardtail section on. Maybe you can find someone who's in the process of doing that to their bike and see if you can have the portion they chopped off. That way you could just do the reverse to your bike, cut it and reweld the original rear end on, then you'll have a bike exactly what you're looking for.
 
for clarity, this is a softail frame
images

and this is a swingarm frame
984ae6ab.png

the first one looks like a hardtail sort of, but has suspension.
the second is a proper swingarm bike.
 
Yeah, weld, bolt or bungy cord those shocks to the side of your hard tail frame. After that I wouldn't be seen in public with it. No one will be fooled by it.

Have you been a member on here before, with a different name?
No I have not been a member under a different name before. Could really give a rats ass what others in public think of it.. I'm just running my imagination. Like I said previously, I'm just getting into bikes.
 
I've had random thoughts about it before, just because I like rear suspensions, but usually think more brat-style bikes look a bit cluttered and uneven. The only way it'd realistically be possible, is if you were to fit some type of hinge to the bottom portion of your frame at the chainstays, up closer to your battery. Then you would need to cut out a portion between the axle and rear seat to fit the rear shocks. I feel like if you can weld and have the steel and some bushings, there's no reason it couldn't be done. You'd basically just be turning the bottom portion of your frame into the swingarm.

I've seen mountain bikes with similar arrangements. They appear to be hardtails, but there's a smaller rubber bushing right behind the seat post, and usually the bottom of those frames just flex, and don't actually pivot, but it's the same idea. I can't find a good picture because I don't remember what bikes they were, but this picture was the closest I found in my 10 second google image search.

FON9V90G145SEIT.MEDIUM.jpg


Now the one remaining thing you'd have to sort out, is if you were to fit a pivot point at the bottom of your frame, the rear axle wouldn't be moving perpendicular to the chainline, which means your chain would get tighter and looser every time the suspension compressed. That would also mean that every time you gave the bike some gas or let off the gas, it would compress or expand the rear suspension somewhat, affecting the handling of your bike. Overall, I think that part alone would be enough to make the whole project a bad idea.
Thanks for all the information..very helpful
 
for clarity, this is a softail frame
images

and this is a swingarm frame
984ae6ab.png

the first one looks like a hardtail sort of, but has suspension.
the second is a proper swingarm bike.
Ok thankyou. Yeah I'm a big fan of the second pictured bike you posted. Wasn't aware of all the different types of frames out there. Thanks for the clarification
 
Where does the suspension go in the soft tail? I think it would make a decent looking bike. I'm curious how they get around the chain tension issue. Maybe the travel is so short it's not an issue. I guess they could also use a tensioner with a spring to help.
 
Where does the suspension go in the soft tail?
I'm curious how they get around the chain tension issue.

An example is shown in the link of my previous post (#16) which is probably the simplest and is similar to that used in the Triumph Bobber.

Unless the pivot point and output sprocket are co axial the chain tension will alter with suspension travel as you say. This is normal and why the designers endeavor to get the two points as close together as possible.
Ducati mount the swinging arm in the back of the crankcase which not only allows then to shorten the wheelbase but also brings the axis of the swinging arm and sprocket closer together.
 
Interesting to see that reference to a Vincent. I met someone in 1976 who owned one. I remember them talking about the unusual sensation of the bike flexing in the middle when you hit a bump. Brought back very old memories for me!!
 
Now there was a guy at one of the ohio shows that did cut the back half off of a Harley soft tail and put it on his XS650 and looked pretty damn good. But when you do a soft tail you really don't see the shocks because they are under the frame. I have seen a lot of brat bikes with shocks that I would build because they look nice. My idea of a brat bike would be a low extended swingarm bike with a 21" front wheel and a nice fat back wheel. Small tank and low seat. I have built many bikes and there is nothing that cannot be done if you have a good welding shop if you cannot weld yourself. Someone on here must have the picture of the guy at the ohio show so you could see it.
KEEP CHOPPIN
 
There was an old thread, a guy had just the look you are after, the shocks were long and low from a drop seat back to very near the axle. I think he had the stock swing arm maybe extended a bit, it looked good IIRC I was worried about his single side top shock tabs and the leverage on them..
 
Ahhhh - yes indeed - Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends!!!!

Our Thanksgiving is in October so it had slipped my mind.

Pete
 
Where does the suspension go in the soft tail? I think it would make a decent looking bike. I'm curious how they get around the chain tension issue. Maybe the travel is so short it's not an issue. I guess they could also use a tensioner with a spring to help.
Hi upthemaiden,
H-D's Softail frame has a normal swingarm action.
The actual swingarm is a triangle-shape, the pivot is just about in the middle of that curved frame plate
and the springs are in tension and hidden underneath the frame.
The whole design is meant to look like a rigid frame without actually being one so that aging H-D riders
can still look tough without running up their chiropractors bills.
 
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