Another PMA/Ignition thread

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Wesley Kagan

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So, I posted that I just picked up a bike about 2 weeks ago, that was going to be a DD/Cafe racer project.
Was going back and forth about the PMA/ Ignition setup and was told by everyone to wait for the original system to fault before upgrading.

Well, after today's trip I was having some idle problems, and after I got back I checked voltage at 3k+rpm and nothing. So on today's ride I managed to drain my nice shiny brand new Antigravity battery down to 6v. I'm really hoping to save it. It's on the L-ion charger right now.

So, I am looking at This setup right here, the combo PMA/PAMCO system from Mike's XS.

It's had good reviews across the board, can anybody see any issues with this for installation?
Bike is an '83 650 with Stock elect.ignition. Running a Antigravity 8 cell 240CCA battery.

Pictures of the bike for attention: (I'm really happy how it turned out)
IMG_0999.JPG
IMG_1001.JPG
 
I might suggest doing a few tests on the system you have. Testing is free.
You may find it's just brushes or bad wiring. Both easy and cheap to fix.
It could be something more, can't tell till you do some testing.
There is a Charging System Guide on here that takes you step by step through the system. It only takes a few hours at most. If you find it needs just a few things thart won't cost much then fix what you have. If it needs a lot, then a PMA may be a viable option.
The system you linked to hasn't had much bad press , but it does come from Mike's. Mike's has a bit of a bad rep for costomer service. The Pamco is a good choice. I think Hugh's Handbuilt may be the better PMA, mostly because of his costomer service.
Leo
 
I'll look into the guide, Thank you. My reasoning for jumping right into the upgraded system (and what drove the concern when I had just got the bike) was some of the wiring is, well, subpar. A previous owner had hacked in a few useless things, and with an upgrade like this system would give me a chance to straighten all that out with new wiring.

I've ordered from Hugh's before and was Extremely happy with what I got. I would order his PMA/crank fire ignition in a heartbeat, but it seems to be out of stock. I was just looking at the PAMCO and Hugh's PMA, might be the direction I go.
 
Fixing the poor wiring should be done anyway. Not hard to do.
Most feel intimidated by wires. They think they can't work on them. I have found wiring easier than carbs.
Just start at the battery and work from there. Get the charging systyem done then add the igniton.
Once you get it to run and charge, the rest is not hasrd. Add a fuse, run some wire to waht you want, then insure a good ground.
I like this diagram. It shows a basic points ignition and the seperate regulator and rectifier. It has the later TCI and combo reg/rec in boxes, Just swap boxes by matching wires colors. E-starter is upper right corner.
From this basic diagam it's not hard to convet to a PMA or any after market ignition.
If you want more electrical items than that shows then add a fuse, ruun the wire.
Leo
 

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Fixing the poor wiring should be done anyway. Not hard to do.
Most feel intimidated by wires. They think they can't work on them. I have found wiring easier than carbs.
Just start at the battery and work from there. Get the charging systyem done then add the igniton.
Once you get it to run and charge, the rest is not hasrd. Add a fuse, run some wire to waht you want, then insure a good ground.
I like this diagram. It shows a basic points ignition and the seperate regulator and rectifier. It has the later TCI and combo reg/rec in boxes, Just swap boxes by matching wires colors. E-starter is upper right corner.
From this basic diagam it's not hard to convet to a PMA or any after market ignition.
If you want more electrical items than that shows then add a fuse, ruun the wire.
Leo
 
Hopefully, you are not considering a kick only battery less capacitor setup. That is where most of the issues arise. Use a battery with sufficient capacity to crank the engine, even if you are going kick only. The problem with tiny batteries is they may work initially, but eventually the get fried by the excess current when charging. The current is not excessive for a stock rated battery. A capacitor has other issues, such as not working as a stabilizer for the shunt type PMA regulator, allowing excessive voltage swings that can fry the ignition system, and not just the PAMCO ignition.
Also, do not install LED lights or headlights with a PMA. The PMA produces its maximum power at all times and requires a hefty load to burn up the excess current, so if anything, install a higher wattage headlight, except that can create charging problems at low RPM, such as when stopped at a traffic light. I guess what I am saying is that the original factory alternator system was well designed and has the necessary flexibility to accommodate the varying needs of the charging system.
 
XSLeo said:
Fixing the poor wiring should be done anyway. Not hard to do.
Most feel intimidated by wires. They think they can't work on them. I have found wiring easier than carbs.
Just start at the battery and work from there. Get the charging systyem done then add the igniton.
Once you get it to run and charge, the rest is not hasrd. Add a fuse, run some wire to waht you want, then insure a good ground.
I like this diagram. It shows a basic points ignition and the seperate regulator and rectifier. It has the later TCI and combo reg/rec in boxes, Just swap boxes by matching wires colors. E-starter is upper right corner.
From this basic diagam it's not hard to convet to a PMA or any after market ignition.
If you want more electrical items than that shows then add a fuse, ruun the wire.
Leo
Click to expand...

If I do go with the PMA and the PAMCO, the bike is getting entirely rewired, for my own peace of mind. I work on a lot of 80's Porsches- I'll take a motorcycle wiring job all day long! If not, I will look into fixing a lot of the smaller problems.

pamcopete said:
Hopefully, you are not considering a kick only battery less capacitor setup. That is where most of the issues arise. Use a battery with sufficient capacity to crank the engine, even if you are going kick only. The problem with tiny batteries is they may work initially, but eventually the get fried by the excess current when charging. The current is not excessive for a stock rated battery. A capacitor has other issues, such as not working as a stabilizer for the shunt type PMA regulator, allowing excessive voltage swings that can fry the ignition system, and not just the PAMCO ignition.
Also, do not install LED lights or headlights with a PMA. The PMA produces its maximum power at all times and requires a hefty load to burn up the excess current, so if anything, install a higher wattage headlight, except that can create charging problems at low RPM, such as when stopped at a traffic light. I guess what I am saying is that the original factory alternator system was well designed and has the necessary flexibility to accommodate the varying needs of the charging system.
Click to expand...

Good notes. I am running a big enough battery for the starter, it's a little bit more CCA Than stock. running stock headlight and LED Taillight, but that is changing if I rewire. I understand the stock setup was designed for the bike, It's just a pain to deal with and would rather get rid of a lot of the problems associated with it.
 
Wesley Kagan said:
If I do go with the PMA and the PAMCO, the bike is getting entirely rewired, for my own peace of mind. I work on a lot of 80's Porsches- I'll take a motorcycle wiring job all day long! If not, I will look into fixing a lot of the smaller problems.



Good notes. I am running a big enough battery for the starter, it's a little bit more CCA Than stock. running stock headlight and LED Taillight, but that is changing if I rewire. I understand the stock setup was designed for the bike, It's just a pain to deal with and would rather get rid of a lot of the problems associated with it.
Click to expand...

Well, a lot of men say that about their wives. At least you know what the issues are with your wife. Not so much with the girl friend.
 
pamcopete said:
Well, a lot of men say that about their wives. At least you know what the issues are with your wife. Not so much with the girl friend.
Click to expand...

Well said. My thing is that with the updated combo, it would give me a chance to wire the bike as simply as possible, and have a bike that i'm not worried about a short or frying my 150.00 battery, or have a weird drain.

In the past few hours I've gone through and found my current brushes to be okay, and the assembly doesn't look bad. I'm blaming it on the rat's nest of wires that i'm dealing with under the seat. I would get rid of a lot of this.

For the record, all previous owner stuff minus the battery box that I printed. (which is temporary until I can get the rear loop that got cut off, back on.)

IMG_1005.JPG
IMG_1009.JPG
 
If you make the swap, don't replace all your lights with LED (as Pete said). I think one of the major reasons people have issues with PMA kits now is they often run without battery, no indicators, no status lights, and make a switch to LED lighting at the same time because its cheap nowadays and they are thinking it will be more efficient or something. The equals an unbalanced system. You want to use up some of that excess juice the PMA is pumping out. Nice bike btw
 
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wherearewe said:
If you make the swap, don't replace all your lights with LED. I think one of the major reasons people have issues with PMA kits now, is they often run without battery, and no indicators, no status lights, and make a switch LED lighting thinking it will be more efficient or something. The equals an unbalanced system. You want to use up some of that excess juice. Nice bike btw
Click to expand...

Yep, I just ordered the kit- went for Hugh's PMA and the PAMCO system. Will be running headlight and some LED indicators with an LED taillight- Antigravity battery 8 cell though. I will see if I can't find some other places to pull juice. Even with the headlight always on, that thing only pulls 50 watts or so I figure.
 
Be sure you install the R/R in a place with good air flow, not in a closed battery box or something. Its gonna be working hard and will probably get pretty warm. A further option is to upgrade the R/R to a Mosfet or even one of the newer type series regulators. The Shindengen FH020AA is a Mosfet type that you can find on eBay. Its used on loads of bikes and the mounting holes are the same as the one in the Hughs kit. Connector type is different though.
 
Boy, you've got a real money pit on your hands there, lol. I pay less for whole bikes.
 
5twins said:
Boy, you've got a real money pit on your hands there, lol. I pay less for whole bikes.
Click to expand...

This wasn't an expensive bike haha. I like a good project, and can do most work myself. Not my first rodeo.

Besides, a few days will give me a chance to finish the tail and re-print my battery box, as well as rewire the entire bike.
 
Funny how everyone thinks the stock charging system is hard or has problems, yet there are hundreds of post on here about the PMA reg/rec frying in under 1 year because it's shit to begin with or it being loose on the crank, ect. I'll take a stock system anyday. All my 30+ yr old bikes never had a charging problem or the reg/rec melting. If it did, it was something simple and under $40.
And if the hack previous owner did that to the wiring, I'd hate to think about the engine internals.
 
Yes, I doubt many, if any, of these "better" PMA systems will still be functioning 30 years from now.
 
Guys, the OP (a new member i see), has already ordered a replacement system. That being said, im not sure how taking yet another steaming dump on the PMA swap is at all helpful? :umm:
 
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Because it's yet another PMA thread. One of like a thousand on here.
Search button, use it.
People are always bashing on a tried and true charging system and immediately want to replace it with a PMA. Learn to troubleshoot, learn the bike.
Look at the PO's wiring. There could be one loose wire on there and he just spent a ton of money.
 
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