Weld-On Softail Plans

Would you build a softail XS?


  • Total voters
    10

YesX650

XS650 Enthusiast
Messages
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Location
Edmonton, Canada
Hi everyone, new guy here. Just picked up a '74 TX650A for $800. The rear frame loop had been partially been cut already, so I figured why not finish it off....I have made my own hardails before but they're not exactly comfortable on the roads here in Canada. I did some research and only found one instance of a weld on softail done tastefully but the shock was right up under the seat inline with the backbone and wasn't exactly what I was looking for..

So having looked at some pictures for inspiration I modeled a softail to scale for our bikes. Currently Im looking into proper geometry for the swingarm pivot bolt, but while I do, I thought I might share what is completed so far. Please, if anyone notices anything critical structurally here is the place to chime and and share your 2 cents. Im building this thing within the next two weeks so any help is appreciated!! lets start a discussion:

The YesX650.png
The YesX650 - Side Elevation.png
The YesX650 - Plan View.png
 
There are ones done using a Harley soft tail same design. You may want to look at those too.
I have done a KZ with a soft tail but not the style like your picture. The biggest problem was the shocks. I
tried two stock shocks at the bottom and that didn't work so finally I bought Harley soft tail shocks and mounted them
and they did work but hung low under motor . I only ended up with 2" clearance not good. Never got it really on the road
and sold it . So I will be watching to see how your design is and maybe try again on a xs650.
Rich
KEEP CHOPPIN
 
Hi, welcome to the forum. There's a few on here from our neck of the woods,(I'm in St. Albert). I can't share any words of wisdom on your swingers design but I'm very interested to see it come together for you.:cheers:
 
Hi everyone, new guy here. Just picked up a '74 TX650A for $800. The rear frame loop had been partially been cut already, so I figured why not finish it off....I have made my own hardails before but they're not exactly comfortable on the roads here in Canada. I did some research and only found one instance of a weld on softail done tastefully but the shock was right up under the seat inline with the backbone and wasn't exactly what I was looking for..
So having looked at some pictures for inspiration I modeled a softail to scale for our bikes. Currently Im looking into proper geometry for the swingarm pivot bolt, but while I do, I thought I might share what is completed so far. Please, if anyone notices anything critical structurally here is the place to chime and and share your 2 cents. Im building this thing within the next two weeks so any help is appreciated!! lets start a discussion:
View attachment 139963 View attachment 139964 View attachment 139965

Hi YesX and welcome,
gotta admire a guy with ambition, eh? Me, I'd have tried to reverse the PO's efforts instead.
Back when I started riding all I could afford to own were pre-WW2 rigid frame bikes so IMHO
rear suspension is the best design improvement since the front brake.
Not that the H-D Softail design is a GOOD rear suspension, it's main feature is to look like it ain't there.
But if it's the look that you want, OK. About the swingarm pivots; rubber in torsion will also fix the shock problem.
Nice drafting BTW.
 
Thanks fellas, for the vote of confidence. I've lurked here for quite a few years but never found an XS to build. Well, that's changed - insert evil grin -

DADDYG - Do you still happen to have any pictures of your kz? I'm going to be spending more time researching geometry than actually building this thing haha. I may have to purchase H-D shocks as they work a little different than regular shocks.

WBacon - Good ol'St Albert. Nice spot, I used to live there. In fact, my old frame jig is still sitting behind a garage in the subdivision that has all "L" street names. I've built the same crime choppers frame jig 3 times now haha this time I'll keep it.

Fred - If only there were a lot of pre WWII bike left! I would have one just to own history. Have you built many flat trackers? Or in S'toon I suppose you just call'em trackers eh hahah. I joke, and badly at that.

You nailed it though: HD Softail are all about form over function. As I research suspension geometry design and all these different forces on the swingarm, you realise the Softail is actually a terrible swingarm to have. It's purely for looks...
Now what if a guy took the overall design and actually made the changes to have it be a functional part of the build AND look decent...this is my goal.


The plan is, once I have my maths figured out I will have the pivot plates laser cut, and I'll have my tubing bent up by Hitchwerks in Nisku as theyre the only place I could find that has the tubing available along with the tubing bender and dies.
One could use a weld together hard tail kit but I'm all about making things myself...except the pivot plates as no one likes cutting 1/2" plate with zip disks (torch would warp plate).
 
I'm planning the same setup for a late 40's Speed Twin kinda sorta bike. I'll be watching with interest. Lotsa' pics please. ;)

giphy (3).gif
 
I'll probably catch some flack for this but........PLEASE don't chop up a stock frame. There are but so many OEM frames out there and when they are gone THEY ARE GONE. If you want to do something this extreme, then start from scratch on the frame.

Sort of ironic , but I also expected flac. If the PO hadn't already started cutting then I most likely would restore. However if your heart is set on restoration, I'll sell it to you lol.
 
I may be just an old airplane fixer but, that is a well done XS/ST set up. Looks like a custom frame and the shocks over the pivots.
 
- - - Fred - If only there were a lot of pre WWII bike left! I would have one just to own history. Have you built many flat trackers? Or in S'toon I suppose you just call'em trackers eh hahah. I joke, and badly at that. - - -

Hi YesX,
back 'ome in the 1950s UK when I rode pre-war rigids they weren't yet priceless antiques,
they were still the beater bikes which were all that an apprentice could afford to buy.
The only way I could afford to get a bike that had tele-forks and rear suspension was to build one.
So instead of crating up my 1934 250cc Velocette for 1/2 a Century or more to sell for retirement money
I put used Dowty Airdraulic tele-forks and a waterpipe copy of a McCandless swingarm conversion kit on it.
Rode it for a year or so then swapped it for sidecar rig so I could take my girlfriend to dances in her party dress.
These days in Saskatoon I just tinker with sidecar rigs, (currently just completing my 7th) and
we'd call a street-legal flat-tracker a triumph of style over substance, just like a softail.
 
I'm planning the same setup for a late 40's Speed Twin kinda sorta bike. I'll be watching with interest. Lotsa' pics please. ;)

Hi jim,
late '40s Speed Twin had a rigid frame with a Triumph Sprung Hub for rear suspension.
A device that Triumph came up with to avoid changing the million dollar rigid frame assembly jig that they'd squandered their Government
post-war reparation money on and that test riders said gave such bad handling that it should be banned and was so dangerous to work on
that the factory manual came with the plans for a dismantling jig that'd stop the 12" long spring from jumping out of it's 6" tall box and hitting
you in the face to break your jaw if it didn't kill you.
 
Hi YesX,
back 'ome in the 1950s UK when I rode pre-war rigids they weren't yet priceless antiques,
they were still the beater bikes which were all that an apprentice could afford to buy.
The only way I could afford to get a bike that had tele-forks and rear suspension was to build one.
So instead of crating up my 1934 250cc Velocette for 1/2 a Century or more to sell for retirement money
I put used Dowty Airdraulic tele-forks and a waterpipe copy of a McCandless swingarm conversion kit on it.
Rode it for a year or so then swapped it for sidecar rig so I could take my girlfriend to dances in her party dress.
These days in Saskatoon I just tinker with sidecar rigs, (currently just completing my 7th) and
we'd call a street-legal flat-tracker a triumph of style over substance, just like a softail.

Buying this bike has landed me in hot water with the Mrs, and when I pitched the idea about a side car for her to ride in it made things worse. Maybe I should have pointed out she can wear one of her nice dresses haha.


On topic: the more I research, the more I find out just how awful the Softail swingarm set up really is. There is minimal suspension travel and I'll be adding so much weight, is this really worth it? I'm not shy of fabricating whatever my heart desires but at this point I am having a hard time justifying chopping this frame...a softail doesn't really have much suspension! I've also never ridden a Harley or similar Softail set up. Research has suggested the twin shock setup on the bike is just all around better aside from the visual. All is not lost yet.
 
Well guys, I did a thing..and it isn't soft tail. There just isn't enough suspension travel for the amount of work required. If anyone wants the updated 3D model in the future I will gladly hand it out!

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You might not like that shock angle. That steep they won't compress. It will act like a hard tail.
Might consider adding a tail section to mount the shock at a more upright position.
using a shorter shock in a more upright position will ride better and still ride low.
Leo
 
You might not like that shock angle. That steep they won't compress. It will act like a hard tail.
Might consider adding a tail section to mount the shock at a more upright position.
using a shorter shock in a more upright position will ride better and still ride low.
Leo
It will compress. If it goes over center you will have a tire up your @ss. Might want to rethink the shock geometry,
 
Maybe some stretch in the swingarm with shocks mounted further up from the factory mount on the bottom would give better geo, with shorter shocks running at a less aggressive angle. The extra clearance from your *ss probably wouldn’t hurt either, but Im just speculating
 
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