Swingarm bush, bronze, steel? Who knows

highboy_coupe

highboy_coupe

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Hi, I went to put in my new swingarm bearings, and after cleaning up the swingarm a bit, I am not sure what bushes I have got here, could do with some advice on what they are and how to remove them of you don't mind.
They looked to be dark coloured metal, after a scrub the bushes look dull, not very bronzey...
There are NO grease channels cut into them, and the dust caps were half tin, half rubber.

There was an inner tube, rusty, probably original.

IMG_20190704_211557.jpg IMG_20190704_211603.jpg IMG_20190704_211612.jpg

Any tips on removing them, if they are bronze, can I grab the lip in a vice and twist the swingarm?

Thanks
 
OE is plastic. Check them with a magnet. They may be aluminum. Are you sure they’re worn and unserviceable? If not, grease them up and drive on. To drive them out, you’ll have to manufacture a drift.
 
jetmechmarty said:
OE is plastic. Check them with a magnet. They may be aluminum. Are you sure they’re worn and unserviceable? If not, grease them up and drive on. To drive them out, you’ll have to manufacture a drift.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply
They are definitely metal, I will check with a magnet, there is not alot inside the drift out! There's no lip inside to get an edge into.

There was al of lateral play in the swingarm... I managed to get it through an MOT by pumping it overfull with grease, just took out some of the play.
 
You’ll have to use a hacksaw. Hopefully, it’s aluminum. You’ll need the saw with no frame around it to get into the tube. Get an aluminum specific blade. Make two cuts, 180 degrees apart. Get as close to the steel as you can. It will be a PITA. Enjoy!

Before you do that, clean up the pin and measure clearance. Be sure the play wasn’t just side to side. For that, you just add shims.
 
A magnet does stick to it, but it's quite a powerful magnet and I think it is just attracted to the swingarm behind... It is much harder to remove from the actual steel of the swingarm.

After cleaning everything up and putting the axle back in the tube (and that back in the swingarm) there is slight play if pull the ends of the axle in opposite directions, feels like it's play inside the tube, rather than in the bushes.
 
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Thanks Gary, do you think your tool would manage a metal bushing?
My only other thought was to crush it in a big vice....:rolleyes:
 
I have successfully used those expanding concrete bolts to remove wheel bearings from a Triumph TR6 650. Doable if there is a lip to bear up against, wind the bolt open and then use suitable drift and whack it through.
 
I use a blind hole bearing puller like the one in gggGary's pics--expanding collet theaded onto a slide hammer. Mine has narrower edges on the business end of the collets, rather than the squared-off edges shown in the photo.
 
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From your pics, I think those bushings really do look original. They were made of some sort of hard plastic or nylon and do, in fact, work and last just fine if they're not worn and kept well greased. They were black in color and looked just like what you have there. I've always had success just driving them out with a long length of pipe. There is a small lip to drive against on the inner end. It's in a bit deeper than your pics show, about 2" in from the outer end. You may need to clean all the old grease out of the arm to get the pipe to engage it well.

For checking wear, after the parts are cleaned up, insert the sleeve back into the bushings and arm, and check to see if it's a nice slip fit or loose in the bushings. How tight the pivot bolt is can also come into play. The swingarm assembly is often a loose fit in the frame. The pivot bolt must be tightened enough to pull the sides of the frame in tight to the arm. A rule of thumb for install is to tighten the bolt just enough so that the bare arm will gently fall under it's own weight. In most of the shop manuals, the tightening torque is given as a single value but I have found it listed (in the '77 manual) as a range, 36 to 58 ft/lbs. Use this range. Start at the bottom value and just tighten the pivot bolt enough so the arm gently drops.
 
5twins said:
From your pics, I think those bushings really do look original. They were made of some sort of hard plastic or nylon and do, in fact, work and last just fine if they're not worn and kept well greased. They were black in color and looked just like what you have there.
Click to expand...

I had a slight suspision that it could also be some ultra hard plastic -- there is a faint concentric rings patters on the outher face, it isn't visible in the photos really, almost like its been turned. Not sure if the originals had that?

When I put the axle and tube back in, it's all a good fit, although there is a slight "clack" noise if I grab both ends of the axle and waggle them up and down in opposite directions, like the amount of play you'd feel wobbling the rocker arms on the compression stroke...

I will try and drive them out and see what they are made of !
 
The axle fit isn't as important as the tube fit in the bushing. The axle will be a looser fit. When mounted tight in the frame, the axle (pivot bolt) clamps the frame tight against the tube. The tube is slightly longer than the swingarm w/bushings (or should be). The tube and pivot bolt are held stationary and don't move. The swingarm w/bushings rotates on or around them.
 
5twins said:
The axle fit isn't as important as the tube fit in the bushing. The axle will be a looser fit. When mounted tight in the frame, the axle (pivot bolt) clamps the frame tight against the tube. The tube is slightly longer than the swingarm w/bushings (or should be). The tube and pivot bolt are held fast and don't move. The swingarm w/bushings rotates on or around them.
Click to expand...

Thanks,
I misunderstood. I actually don't think there is any play between the tube and the bushings, not physically noticable anyway.

Maybe just clean it up, re-grease and tighten. I guess the play detected at the rear wheel was lateral, and the swingarm bolt was not tight enough, pumping more grease in must have taken up slack a tiny bit.
 
Yes, maybe your swingarm bolt was just too loose. Install it using the "drop test" I outlined and maybe it'll be OK. I swapped my swingarm years ago to one from a TX750. The original plastic bushings in it were still good so I left them. I'm still running it like that to this day and it's fine. That's one of the nice things about TX750 running gear. The motors had issues and often crapped out at very low miles. That left a virtually unused chassis to scrounge from.
 
If your pivot bolt was a bit loose, you will find wear spots on it. These wear spots are from the pivot tube rotating on the pivot bolt, instead of the swing arm and bushings rotating on the pivot tube.
Something you might try, is to use the pivot bolt, some washers as spacers. Install the pivot tube and bolt in the bushings, use enough washers to make up for the frame.
Or use a length of all thread rod. Snug these down so the bolt clamps onto the pivot tube.
Can you still feel any play this way?
Leo
 
Thanks all, I endevoured to remove them, as I had some bearing sat around waiting to go in anyway.

It did not go well.. it turns out that they were original (if the original plastic is particulary fibrous?), I sawed through them a bit on opposite sides as suggested, but they appeared to have bonded themselves to the inside of the swingarm, I had to chip away at them and knock a small screwdriver down between the bushing and the swingarm tube. This resulted in various lumps of fibrous brittle crap flaking all over the place.
After about 45 minutes I got the last of it out, cleaned up all the horrible burs I had made in the tube and got to work pressing my bearings in.

These went in fine (10 ton press), then half the rollers fell out of one of the bearings, down into the greasy middle of the swingarm tube, where they became lodged.....
After manually re-inserting the rollers, I greased up the tube and... hello notchy swingarm -- it's so tight it does not feel great. I know the bearings are in straight, they seated well in the press.
Turning the middle tube by hand is tough, and notchy, I guess this is why people go for brass?! I will leave it for now as it won't do alot of miles.
 
highboy_coupe said:
Thanks all, I endevoured to remove them, as I had some bearing sat around waiting to go in anyway.

It did not go well.. it turns out that they were original (if the original plastic is particulary fibrous?), I sawed through them a bit on opposite sides as suggested, but they appeared to have bonded themselves to the inside of the swingarm, I had to chip away at them and knock a small screwdriver down between the bushing and the swingarm tube. This resulted in various lumps of fibrous brittle crap flaking all over the place.
After about 45 minutes I got the last of it out, cleaned up all the horrible burs I had made in the tube and got to work pressing my bearings in.

These went in fine (10 ton press), then half the rollers fell out of one of the bearings, down into the greasy middle of the swingarm tube, where they became lodged.....
After manually re-inserting the rollers, I greased up the tube and... hello notchy swingarm -- it's so tight it does not feel great. I know the bearings are in straight, they seated well in the press.
Turning the middle tube by hand is tough, and notchy, I guess this is why people go for brass?! I will leave it for now as it won't do alot of miles.
Click to expand...

Hi highboy_coupe,
my 40+ years as a machinery designer sez rolling element bearings ain't the best bet for partial rotation.
Most folks replace the stock plastic bushings with bronze (NOT brass) bushings because they work better.
BTW, if your bike still has the stock M14 -ended swingarm throughbolt best replace it with an aftermarket M16-ended one.
If it's done up hard enough to lock the bearing sleeve from rotating it's 14mm end has been known to snap off and let the
throughbolt fall out onto the street.
 

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