Miss November XS2 tribute

MaxPete said:
That weld repair does look super - very neatly done indeed!
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Yes, welder said he was unable to replace the broken fragment, because it was too thin and he said this type of alloy casting is very porous and not easy to re-attach. But he said, I'll have a go at building up the broken area with successive lines of weld and then try and shape it back with a mini-grinder. I'm so glad I had faith in him.

5twins said:
A tip for the riveting - tap a small "X" cut into the ends of the pins with a small chisel. This helps keep the riveter tool pin on and centered on the chain pin. It tends to want to walk off the side of the pin as you tighten the tool down otherwise .....
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Thank you 5twins - I will follow your advice. First, I have to get the cam chain to meet. From being too long, the chain now feels too short. Have only been able to pull the chain to the next-to-adjacent position. Just can't get enough purchase to make it slip over the one extra tooth it needs.

The plan for tomorrow is to remove the bearings from one end of the camshaft - both, if I still can't get it - pull the chain over, rivet, and then attempt to lift the camshaft back up enough to push the bearings back. At least the camshaft is hollow, so should be able to pass a rod through to lift it.

Unless one of you gentlemen has a better idea?
 
Yes, a correct length new chain is very tight at first. I'm guessing your chain was and is practically new, it was just too long before. OK, so now you're dealing with a new tight chain and a loose head/cylinder assembly with all new uncompressed gaskets. What you need to do is pull all that stuff down tighter together. To do that, put some spacers on the studs to replace the missing top cover and snug down the acorn head nuts. Sockets will work or you can cut short pipe spacers.
 
Raymondo said:
The plan for tomorrow is to remove the bearings from one end of the camshaft - both, if I still can't get it - pull the chain over, rivet, and then attempt to lift the camshaft back up enough to push the bearings back. At least the camshaft is hollow, so should be able to pass a rod through to lift it.
Click to expand...
Have a read here. Comment #894
 
Today, not a good start.

First, placed sockets over the studs and tightened the dome nuts down. Not full torque. But it certainly gave a little bit more play in the chain.

Still won't go.

Second, start to tap the bearings off right end of camshaft. Camshaft flips up. Cam chain, which I thought I had well enough secured, disappears down inside the motor.

So now, rather than panic reaction, consider my options. Is there any alternative to a complete strip and split the cases?

And if I end up dong a complete strip, should I just fit an endless cam chain?
 
Pete, I adopted your suggestion.

First, had tried fishing the chain out with a telescopic magnetic gizmo, but it weren't having any.

Then, rolled the motor on its back, removed sump plate, managed after a lot of fiddling to get a wire to pass from the sump up through the chain tunnel. Mrs very helpful - from holding the torch to wiggling wires about. I think she was just relieved I wasn't swearing. Much. Managed to fish the end of the chain down into the sump area, secured it to the wire and attempted to pull it through. At first, no joy. Then realised the wire had crossed the chain on its way through so the chain would have been twisted past itself to get through.

But after a few renewed attempts the chain was pulled back up through.

No action photos - I was too busy? But here's the aftermath. Sump has just been replaced:


PICT1879.JPG


Chain back where it was a few hours ago:


PICT1880.JPG


Note to self - Don't lose the chain down the engine again.

Further note to self - find suitable treat for Mrs.
 
Paul, you made me larf, which is something!

Gator, I am totally doubting myself now. When first checked, the valve timing was waaay off. On 5twins suggestion, I counted the cam chain links - there were 108 but should be 106. So I have shortened the chain by removing one outer and one inner link. Cam chain is now 106 links. Including the joining link. This is correct according to my Haynes manual, according to Yambits and more importantly according to the wise heads on this forum. Who also say that a new cam chain is tight.

But all the problems today have been due to tightness.

If I had been able to get the chain onto the sprocket, I would not have removed a bearing from one end, leading to the, uhm, accident earlier when the camshaft suddenly jumped and I lost the chain down inside the engine. Since then, have been trying again to fit the chain. To no avail. Just cannot get it to meet on the sprocket with the bearings in place.

Have been able to get the chain to meet with one pair of bearings removed. But cannot lift the camshaft up far enough to slide even one bearing back on. Even using a metal rod inside the camshaft and along lever. At one point I was using an old Z1 fork stanchion as a lever while Willing Assistant clung on grimly to the engine.


PICT1882.JPG

The eagle-eyed may spot that the joining link has only been fitted pro temp - I want to get everything on before I commit to riveting.

I know the chain should be tight, but this is getting ridiculous. We are always told not to over-tighten the rear chain or risk destroying the gearbox bearings. I can hardly believe, if I have the right length of chain, that fitting it can be such an impossible job.

Have given up for today. Thought about counting the chain links again. But in the end decided not to turn the engine with cam bearings not in place and a temporary joining link.

Besides, would not trust myself to count my own toes now!
 
Raymondo said:
I think she was just relieved I wasn't swearing. Much.
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YUP - Madam MaxPete is always grateful for small mercies too.

Paul Sutton said:
Perhaps a new cam chain might be a suitable treat?? My wife loves her two torque wrenches, socket set and MIG welder. She lets me use them all the time.
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YOU, Paul, you are a funny guy. It must be the transplantation of an antipodean outlook to a land where an utterly unpronounceable 25 letter word is the norm....

Stick at it Raymond - but what a bugger eh?
 
Not sure on the XS (haven't pulled the head/cam) but on my honda's, the cam chain links literally just reach each other on the cam when the lower sprocket and cam sprocket are in place. There's no way to get the cam chain linked, put on the cam sprocket and then try to raise the cam shaft into place to get them seated on their bearings...it's just too tight. Again, not sure on the XS, but I would assume that's the same type of tension.
 
Here's an excerpt from my buildup thread: I take a fresh piece of safety wire about a foot long and tie it to both ends of the chain to make one big loop. Pull up on the loop and rotate the crank about a half a turn in both directions. Any links kinked up on the crank sprocket will pop loose and all your chain will be sticking up. Pull the chain one way or the other (keeping the loop pulled tight) until your TDC mark lines back up on the rotor.

Did you rotate the crank back and forth to ensure there's no kinks?
 
Jim said:
Here's an excerpt from my buildup thread: I take a fresh piece of safety wire about a foot long and tie it to both ends of the chain to make one big loop. Pull up on the loop and rotate the crank about a half a turn in both directions. Any links kinked up on the crank sprocket will pop loose and all your chain will be sticking up. Pull the chain one way or the other (keeping the loop pulled tight) until your TDC mark lines back up on the rotor.

Did you rotate the crank back and forth to ensure there's no kinks?
Click to expand...

Yeah, now I don't have the level of experience possessed by many of the other folks such as Jim and 2M on the Forum, but it sure sounds to me like you've either got a bad count of links on the chain or there is something goofy happening like a chain link with a kink (sorry for the poetry :rolleyes:) - because while a new timing chain IS tight, it shouldn't be anywhere near that tight.

My advice for tonight is, back off, take Madam out for a nice supper and a glass of something tasty and have another go tomorrow.

Pete
 
Raymondo
It will fit. Been reading your thread with great interest. I am assembling a engine with a new cam chain. Mine is OEM Yamaha chain I got off of EBay. Decided today would me the day to find out how hard it is. Started out by stacking nuts on the 4 center studs and snugging down. No joy. Then I noticed the cam bearings were not fully seated. Tapped on them with a brass drift, no hammer just drift. Could see cam settle a little. Cool here we go. Still no joy. Hmmm. I lashed the left side of the chain to the studs and using a 4mm T-handle tried prying up on the right side of the chain. Close but no cigar, the motor wanted to roll as I pried the chain up. Need to hold the motor from turning. Working by myself and no third hand only one thing to do. But my beer belly to good use. Was able to lean against the wrench on the crankshaft nut and hold crank in position, even roll it CCW if needed. It was no fluke, ended up doing it this way 3 times. Once the chain slipped off when lashing down the right side. Then again because the cam was out of time. Next up make wedges so chain doesn't jump off when I take wire off.
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I
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