New Member / New Owner - basic questions...

Hi all,

Just purchased a 79 XS650F for a cafe project. This is my 2nd bike, my 1st bike was a 2007 Ninja 250R (keihin carb'd). I've got the basics down for the mechanical bits and carbs but i'm a bit clueless with electrical systems. The bike was mildly disassembled by the previous owner for a project that was never completed. Bike has ~9000 miles on it. I'm aiming for a lightweight minimalist reliable commuter bike, not a racer.

-are there any well written articles or videos on the XS650 electrics?

-I've already bought an antigravity 8-cell battery. I know you need a Reg/Rec designed for lithium like a Rick's. I'm considering getting an XSCharge PMA system, but they state they're incompatible with lithium batteries. Is this fixed by simply using a Rick's Reg/Rec?

-Suggestions for a digital ignition replacement? Is the XSCharge system recommended? What is an e-advancer and should I aim to get one?

-I plan on moving to a Motogadget M.Unit at some point. Should I just install that first? I know the M.Unit is internally digitally fused so it eliminates the need for a fusebox. It could be easier to learn with, considering the simple in/out system it uses.

I will continue researching myself, but if anyone wants to take a minute to help me out it would be appreciated.



Note: currently the carbs are off, battery cage is out, most of the electric peripherals are disconnected.

Welcome!

Unfortunately, I don't know much of anything about any of the questions you asked. My sense is the PMA's are generally considered more of a pain than they're worth and a properly set up stock alternator is a better solution.

Check out the Tech section and the Electrical subsection if you haven't already. Wealth of information there.

Downeaster said:

. My sense is the PMA's are generally considered more of a pain than they're worth and a properly set up stock alternator is a better solution.

Click to expand...

Thank you Downeaster
I can say that having following this kind of thread topic for a few years it seems there are a few riders who put on many miles who have converted to other than stock electrical systems.
So I suppose decisions such as this are influenced by your intended use of your XS650.
I ride just locally. Short rides for pleasure and have been perfectly happy tinkering with stock systems.
So Many guys “drink the Koolaid” and start bolting on Chinese immediately because they read do do it somewhere, or heard about it.
And then all the electrical troubles show up right here for the very wise members to diagnose. ?
Good Luck !

Welcome!!
There are lithium batteries out there that have a built in charge controller, eliminating the need for a special reg/rec. Don't know what they are off the top of my head... but Google should reveal all.

The stock charging system works quiet well with a few mods such as building your own reg/rec. Use the "Search Forums" button at the top of the page and look for VR-115 regulator.

The stock alternator rotor, although quiet good, is 40yrs old and at the end of it's life. There's a forum member that rewinds 'em. I hear he does a fair job of it.
A good PMA setup is pretty spendy. You can make the original very reliable for much less.

What electronic iggy to use is a discussion in itself. I'll let others chime in here....

I'm considering the Motogadget myself. Considering all the work involved in rewiring, I'd start with that first instead of tearing everything back apart to incorporate it later. Good luck with your project.

Built my bike with the following:
M unit
XSCharge PMA kit including Reg/Rec
Genuine Pamco w e-advance
Antigravity lithium battery

I suggest installing the M unit and wiring the bike now instead of waiting.
I have 4,000 kilometres on the bike with no electrical/charging/ignition issues.

Earthx etx12a. It's $170 has a 2 year warranty, has built in over/under charge protection as well as cell balancing. It's what I'm running on my EFI XS, with a PMA using a SH775 regulator. After start it stays around 13.1v until you get moving and the battery tops off and it goes up to a steady 14.2V. Lithium batteries do struggle when it gets below about 50*, you have to crank the bike then wait a minute so the battery can warm up and give full power. If you go kick start that is less important.

The sh775 regulator can be found used on ebay for around $50, it is a more modern design and was used by polaris on the rzr and others. It shuts down phases rather than just shunting power to ground, so it does run a little cooler.

I agree that if you plan to rewire, just do it now. Especially if it has anything hack going on with the electrics. Also from what I have heard is that if you go PMA stick with regular bulbs so the regulator has less excess power to dispose of. I have LED everything, but I have a lot of extra electrical draw with the fuel pump, sensors, injectors etc.

It looks like you found a nice fairly unmodified bike which is always a better base, especially if you are new to modding.

peterg said:

Built my bike with the following:
M unit
XSCharge PMA kit including Reg/Rec
Genuine Pamco w e-advance
Antigravity lithium battery

I suggest installing the M unit and wiring the bike now instead of waiting.
I have 4,000 kilometres on the bike with no electrical/charging/ignition issues.

Click to expand...

Great, thanks. That's what I needed to know.

Thanks All! I will try to make some progress posts in the near future

Haynix said:

Hi all,
-I've already bought an antigravity 8-cell battery. I know you need a Reg/Rec designed for lithium like a Rick's. I'm considering getting an XSCharge PMA system, but they state they're incompatible with lithium batteries. Is this fixed by simply using a Rick's Reg/Rec?

-Suggestions for a digital ignition replacement? Is the XSCharge system recommended? What is an e-advancer and should I aim to get one?

-I plan on moving to a Motogadget M.Unit at some point. Should I just install that first? I know the M.Unit is internally digitally fused so it eliminates the need for a fusebox. It could be easier to learn with, considering the simple in/out system it uses.

I will continue researching myself, but if anyone wants to take a minute to help me out it would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

I have a feeling that both "Lithium" battery manufacturers and PMA manufacturers are just protecting them self from litigation, by discouraging this combination of technologies.
My personal experience with a Powerdynamo CDI/PMA and a Super B 2600 battery on my 74 RD350A is very good. Totally trouble free operation. Not a hiccup. The only thing is that you need to use a good quality multimeter with true RMS when verifying charging voltage. Fluke or equivalent. My 30 dollar cheapo gave weird readings on my RD.
And I do in fact have a little experience with a Shorai battery failing, after the voltage regulator failed on the German Autobahn 5 years ago, on my Ducati ST2 944. The voltage went above 20 V, according to the dash instruments, and the injection and ignition started playing up as well. I got off the Autobahn, and stopped, and pulled off the fairing panel. The battery was smoking, and the top had come off. The whole thing smelled really funky, so I just got it off the bike. No fire, no explosion at all, although a little too exciting. Bottom line is, as long as voltage is kept between 14 and 15 V, there should be no battery issues at all.

peterg said:

Built my bike with the following:
M unit
XSCharge PMA kit including Reg/Rec
Genuine Pamco w e-advance
Antigravity lithium battery

I suggest installing the M unit and wiring the bike now instead of waiting.
I have 4,000 kilometres on the bike with no electrical/charging/ignition issues.

Click to expand...

still no issues? in looking a a very similar options Electex world PMA and worry about frying my battery they say lead acid batteries only.

The Tin Man said:

still no issues? in looking a a very similar options Electex world PMA and worry about frying my battery they say lead acid batteries only.

Click to expand...

Think about this: Most motorcycles come from the factory with a PMA, my 2 Ducatis for sure.
It all comes down to the regulator/ rectifier. As long as the voltage is kept within the battery manufacturers requirements, it does not matter what type of alternator/ generator the bike has.