Miss November XS2 tribute

I was looking through my old thread for when I fitted a Boyer Bransden ignition:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/boyer-bransden-ignition-1981-yamaha-xs650-sh.48040/#post-484422

In Entry 1 there is a photo of my cam with a drill bit in it to show the chain was set correctly. This photo was taken after several hundred miles on a new cam chain which looked slightly out at assembly like yours.

Paul Sutton said:

In Entry 1 there is a photo of my cam with a drill bit in it to show the chain was set correctly. This photo was taken after several hundred miles on a new cam chain which looked slightly out at assembly like yours.

Click to expand...

Thank you for that, Paul. Reassuring to think that as new chain beds in the valve timing will 'come right'.

I was just getting a bit worried about everything with the bike refusing to start. But with the problems we have found in last couple of days - duff plug and duff HT lead/coil - bike was never going to.





New coil should be here early (?) next week and after that surely the bike will run. Then, strobe the timing.

And after that, perhaps maybe even get to ride the beast and start the proper fettling, carbs, suspension, tyre pressures etcetera.

We've seen some oddball stuff in here, and things done by previous owners can be a mystery. It's possible that someone re-indexed the cam sprocket, as a cheap fix for a stretched camchain. Justa FYI, info on fitting the cam sprocket can be found by a forum search on "cam sprocket", posted by member "mrriggs". For example:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-sprocket-swap.29831/

Not for the faint of heart...

TwoManyXS1Bs said:

We've seen some oddball stuff in here, and things done by previous owners can be a mystery. It's possible that someone re-indexed the cam sprocket, as a cheap fix for a stretched camchain. Justa FYI, info on fitting the cam sprocket can be found by a forum search on "cam sprocket", posted by member "mrriggs". For example:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-sprocket-swap.29831/

Not for the faint of heart...

Click to expand...

Indeed, not for the faint of heart. Very interesting read, and good to find such a clear discussion of the dos and don'ts of changing or moving the cam sprocket. But I'll go with 5twins and Paul Sutton who both point out that as the new cam chain stretches, taking that up at the tensioner will roll the cam back a smidge and tend to correct the 5°.

Hopefully, nobody has actually re-indexed the cam sprocket - probably not something that commonly gets done. But as you say, things done by previous owners can be a mystery. 108 link cam chain . . .

Once the bike is back up and running it's clear that it will need ongoing attention and I plan to set the spark timing by strobe, do an early oil & filter change, re-torque the cylinder head, keep an eye on and adjust the tensioner and have a look at the tappets. When the tensioner has been adjusted, not much trouble to look at the cam position.

Backstop is I've found an engineer in Galashiels who has experience of working on XS650 camshafts. He offered to help with the crank and camshaft if I ever decide to re-phase the engine. (No plans just now.)

A very good day. New Micro Power coil and HT leads arrived. With these fitted, bike started first touch of the button.

Didn't last long - unsure how long choke would be needed, backed it off and she stopped. Started the bike a few times, with choke and without. Never ran for more than maybe 1/2 minute. So not long enough to start checking the strobe. But appears to respond well to a touch of throttle. And sounded a lot healthier than when I ran the engine back in June.

Currently (sorry) charging the battery, which soon gets depleted with repeated use. I know, I should use the kick . . .

Back to the fray.

Raymondo said:

A very good day. New Micro Power coil and HT leads arrived. With these fitted, bike started first touch of the button.

Didn't last long - unsure how long choke would be needed, backed it off and she stopped. Started the bike a few times, with choke and without. Never ran for more than maybe 1/2 minute. So not long enough to start checking the strobe. But appears to respond well to a touch of throttle. And sounded a lot healthier than when I ran the engine back in June.

Currently (sorry) charging the battery, which soon gets depleted with repeated use. I know, I should use the kick . . .

Back to the fray.

Click to expand...

Well done Raymond - you're nearly there!

Pete

Right on!!! I bet it felt good to hear it come to life...albeit, for only a few seconds.

Battery recharged, had another go. This time, used kick-start. Mostly. As engine warmed up, able to run her long enough to strobe. Timing was badly retarded, so advanced it but still not quite right. One of the allen screws holding the Boyer pick-up plate under the points cover is loose - the screw has chewed up the alloy, so you can't get it to tighten fully. That's a problem for another day.

Got the timing close enough to be able to set the tick-over a bit lower. Now able to start the engine at will. YooHoo!

Checked the cam chain tensioner - looking good, there is a wee bit of movement out as far as flush with the adjuster nut.

Even went for a run.





Only as far as the village car park so a return journey of about 1/2 mile. The clutch was horrible, slipping and not gripping at a consistent point. Stopped three times to adjust but it needs a Look. And it was five o'clock so traffic as everybody heads off home which is not when you want to be out on something you don't trust yet.

But it's a start! The bike runs, needs a lot of fettling but we're on the way.

Nice to hear your nearly there with your bike. I really like the paint scheme, should draw a crowd whenever you park up.

Thank you All! I would never have made the same progress or maybe even got this far without the encouragement and practical advice you have given me, as well as the vast reference source of material on this forum.

There are issues to deal with before the bike is a practical runner. My top five list today:

1 clutch - cable and adjuster. Dismantling the bike, found the last 3/4 inch of the clutch cable wrapped in duck tape/insulating tape. Didn't think about it much - just a dodge to make a snug fit in the operating arm? But last night, with the Clarity of 4am, realised that if the operating arm is holding the cable by a piece of tape that will give symptoms of not gripping at a consistent point and un-adjustable. Doh!

I don't know why this has been done - possible the wrong cable without enough adjustment? Need to dismantle, see how the adjustment works, perhaps buy a new cable.

2 points housing screw. This is the screw that holds the Boyer plate and would have held the points. The upper screw in the rocker box cover. Thread is stripped so you can only go to finger tight - apply an Allen key and the screw just turns. One fix would be Locktite and I may go that way as a temporary fix but I don't like that idea much. Might measure the length of the screw and the depth of the hole - see if there is scope to use a longer screw, cut to length so as to use the last few un-stripped threads. Hmm. The proper fix of course is to take the cover to an engineer and use Helicoil insert or whatever - there are better solutions that Helicoil these days. But that means engine out to take the cover off.

3 Spark timing. Unfortunately, the Boyer back-plate does not offer very many degrees of adjustment, so I had to loosen the rotating magnets and move them. This involves guessing a new magnet position, because you have to pull the back-plate out of the way, and then finding a way to hold the magnets as the nut is tightened at the other end of the rod, under the former advance cover. Have another go when I have someone to hold one end or tighten the other. And a better strobe - the one I was using stopped flashing as revs were increased.

4 Seat not locking. Need to investigate why but it's awkward to kick start when the seat keeps coming up. Probably illegal to ride with seat not secure. I notice that in UK we kick-start a bike sitting/standing over it - bike not on a stand - using right leg. In USA people seem to leave bike on centre-stand and stand to the right of the bike to kick. Have I got that wrong?

5 Fuel filler cap not locking. This might be due to paint making the securing pin in front of the filler neck too thick for the lock to grip? A nuisance, but it didn't flip open when I went for that short run.

So, a little bit to get on with then.

Don't just THINK about a new clutch cable. DO it, lube before installing.

Ooops, we crossed in the post, Gary.

You're probably right and I should have just bought a new clutch cable. Maybe too impatient?

But anyhow, been out to the garage, dismantled the cable, lubed with engine oil, packed the worm, ball bearing and adjuster crew with molly grease, put all back together and adjusted. Here's the bits stripped for cleaning:





The lubed cable feels smooth as it should now. Set adjuster just a smidge out from touching. Set a few mm play at the handlebar end (perch in the USA?).

Don't really like the cable routing though and might see if I can run the cable a bit better next time I have things apart. The other thing I don't like about the set-up is the curved guide just above where the cable enters the crankcase cover. This wiggles about and uses up a fair bit of the free play. Is this normal? Does my bike have the wrong part? Or should the guide be fixed some way?

But that's one job off the list. For now . . .

Raymondo said:

Ooops, we crossed in the post, Gary.

You're probably right and I should have just bought a new clutch cable. Maybe too impatient?

But anyhow, been out to the garage, dismantled the cable, lubed with engine oil, packed the worm, ball bearing and adjuster crew with molly grease, put all back together and adjusted. Here's the bits stripped for cleaning:


View attachment 147416


The lubed cable feels smooth as it should now. Set adjuster just a smidge out from touching. Set a few mm play at the handlebar end (perch in the USA?).

Don't really like the cable routing though and might see if I can run the cable a bit better next time I have things apart. The other thing I don't like about the set-up is the curved guide just above where the cable enters the crankcase cover. This wiggles about and uses up a fair bit of the free play. Is this normal? Does my bike have the wrong part? Or should the guide be fixed some way?

But that's one job off the list. For now . . .

Click to expand...

You’ll get there Raymond, there’s always a lot of fiddling after you first get them going. You’ve made amazing progress, you’re almost there!

Thank you,Bob!

Further fiddling today, cleared a few jobs from the list above. Managed to free the seat lock mechanism. It uses same key as original (rusty) fuel tank - probably something to do with frame and engine numbers not matching. So now the bike's 'bunch' has ignition key, fuel tank key and seat key. At least they jingle.

Scraped paint off the petrol tank securing pin and the lock seems happy to stay shut . . .

Changed both Allen screws holding the Boyer Bransden timing plate - one had stripped the thread in the rocker box cover. Took a look at depth of the hole. Plenty of room, so found an old cross-head screw, longer but with same thread. It went in fine, but looked odd with the other being an Allen head. So I replaced the other one too and funny thing was, it was the same longer length. So the one that stripped was a short screw someone had shoved in as a bodge . . .

Started the engine ( that's almost worth saying again!) and put a multi-meter across the battery. 12.4V with all switched off, but 13.3 on tick-over rising to 13.5 at 2000 rpm. That seems good to me? And indicates that the charging circuit works ok?

Traditional road test to see how the clutch compares to yesterday abandoned due to heavy rain.

Well, c'mon, you don't want to head out in a downpour on an unfamiliar bike to test gear changing/clutch slip/engine pick-up now do you?

The only thing left on my initial list now is to have another go at setting the spark timing. But there will of course be more jobs after that.

Onwards and upwards.

Raymondo said:

The lubed cable feels smooth as it should now. Set adjuster just a smidge out from touching. Set a few mm play at the handlebar end (perch in the USA?).
Don't really like the cable routing though and might see if I can run the cable a bit better next time I have things apart. The other thing I don't like about the set-up is the curved guide just above where the cable enters the crankcase cover. This wiggles about and uses up a fair bit of the free play. Is this normal? Does my bike have the wrong part? Or should the guide be fixed some way?
But that's one job off the list. For now . . .

Click to expand...

Hi Raymondo,
The stock clutch cable does have a short curved rigid section going into the left-side cover casting so yes, it's the right part and no, that elbow ain't fixed.
Some aftermarket replacement cables also have that rigid section but others don't. The easier the cable route, the lighter it's pull.
I run my XS11's clutch cable in a free air swoop from lever to clutch operator to cut it's pull in half.
Alas that a free air routing ain't possible on an XS650 because it's clutch cable's engine-side attachment ain't in a place that allows it.
As the stock cable route puts hiding the cable way ahead of giving it an easy run there's definitely an easier cable route to be found.

Well we can't see your guide....
If you have a bit of time let this be your guide.

This might be useful also. http://www.xs650.com/threads/short-...utch-cable-rerouting-ideas.41987/#post-419895

gggGary said:

Well we can't see your guide....
If you have a bit of time let this be your guide.

This might be useful also. http://www.xs650.com/threads/short-...utch-cable-rerouting-ideas.41987/#post-419895

Click to expand...

Hahaha - clever!

Interesting read. Seems people have done a lot of research and experimenting in the pursuit of a good, easy clutch action. Maybe it's a Holy Grail that will never be found?

Hope when I get out again that the clutch is better than yesterday's brief outing.

Well, it looks like you don't need to fix that stripped points housing screw after all, but I was going to say that those points and advance housings pull right off the side of the motor without having to take the motor out of the frame.

Many of us straighten that cable elbow out a little bit. You don't make it completely straight, just about half as bent as it was. It seems to help make the clutch lever pull a bit easier .....



I clamp the elbow in a vice. Just make sure you let the sheath end hang out or you'll squeeze it closed .....





Peak charging output happens about 3K RPMs and above and should be around 14. Looks like you're charging but probably best if you check it at the higher RPMs to make sure. If you still have the old original mechanical voltage regulator, the peak output may be low, but you can adjust it.

Appreciated, 5twins. I'll have a go at judiciously straightening that elbow.

With the engine running, wanted to do a quick check with a multi-meter and pleased to see that voltage went up with a few revs - if the bike is charging properly that's one less thing to worry about.

Believe this or not, the Triumph 650 I bought had the ammeter wired backwards. And as the PO demonstrated the bike to me he pointed out the positive current flow as evidence of the battery being topped up. He owns an electrical business . . .

Yes, the charging systems on these can have issues, but they are actually a very good system. You can take steps to "modernize" it and reduce the strain on the major components, the rotor and stator. You install better and more modern regulators and rectifiers. The upgraded parts aren't that expensive and will help prolong the life of the "big ticket" items I mentioned by reducing the strain on them.