Kickback after rewiring/larger battery

rburch93

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Hi all,

First of all, I’ve come across a few other similar threads to this, but I have a feeling that the root issue in those cases is different than the one I’m running into, so I decided a separate thread might be good. Apologies if this topic is redundant.

Anyway, I’m very new to the motorcycle thing- I purchased an 82 xs650 recently w/ kickstart only. Cleaned and balanced the carbs after buying and starting learning to ride. I was hooked from day 1... For whatever reason, the bike was rewired by the PO to run off of a super small battery that was rechargeable. The battery was one of those packs that look like saranwrapped double A’s all lined up (same size and shape as 3 AA’s next to each other, shrink wrapped in plastic...) but even more strange, it had a line leading into it that you could literally plug into the wall to charge overnight. The whole system worked okay, other than losing your headlight on a dark backroad in the middle of the night at 40mph.. Anyway, the electric became less and less reliable over time, and got to the point I wanted to switch it out. Bike was running perfectly at this time- (which was less than a month ago- it started 1st or 2nd kick, idle level was good, and really no driving related issues.)

Anyway, i purchased a larger battery (12V 9ah) and rewired everything based on the attached diagrams. Many of the components of the ignition system aren’t stock, but the mainb wires are there. Stator is working according to my multimeter, and i do have a spark when I ground plugs to the engine and kick it. All the lights work as they’re supposed to.

That said, i can’t get the thing started. I’ve messed around endlessly with the choke, with giving it different amounts of throttle... everything i can think of. And to make things worse, I’m having pretty severe and delayed kickback about 1/4 of the kicks, and it has backfired a few times as well. Anyway, I’m curious as to if you have any suggestions on how to problem solve this. I have read threads saying to retard the advancer timing for starters... that said, I’m slightly perplexed because the bike was firing up very consistently with no kick back ever before i rewired and got a bigger battery. Is it possible for the timing/advancer to get screwed up without doing anything to it? Is it possible that i have some of cords swapped so that it is causing the timing to be off? Could the bigger battery have an affect on it? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. My ankle and knee are about ready for a break, so thought I’d try to trouble shoot before i do any
More ligament damage.

Thanks!
Ryan
 
Hi all,

First of all, I’ve come across a few other similar threads to this, but I have a feeling that the root issue in those cases is different than the one I’m running into, so I decided a separate thread might be good. Apologies if this topic is redundant.

Anyway, I’m very new to the motorcycle thing- I purchased an 82 xs650 recently w/ kickstart only. Cleaned and balanced the carbs after buying and starting learning to ride. I was hooked from day 1... For whatever reason, the bike was rewired by the PO to run off of a super small battery that was rechargeable. The battery was one of those packs that look like saranwrapped double A’s all lined up (same size and shape as 3 AA’s next to each other, shrink wrapped in plastic...) but even more strange, it had a line leading into it that you could literally plug into the wall to charge overnight. The whole system worked okay, other than losing your headlight on a dark backroad in the middle of the night at 40mph.. Anyway, the electric became less and less reliable over time, and got to the point I wanted to switch it out. Bike was running perfectly at this time- (which was less than a month ago- it started 1st or 2nd kick, idle level was good, and really no driving related issues.)

Anyway, i purchased a larger battery (12V 9ah) and rewired everything based on the attached diagrams. Many of the components of the ignition system aren’t stock, but the mainb wires are there. Stator is working according to my multimeter, and i do have a spark when I ground plugs to the engine and kick it. All the lights work as they’re supposed to.

That said, i can’t get the thing started. I’ve messed around endlessly with the choke, with giving it different amounts of throttle... everything i can think of. And to make things worse, I’m having pretty severe and delayed kickback about 1/4 of the kicks, and it has backfired a few times as well. Anyway, I’m curious as to if you have any suggestions on how to problem solve this. I have read threads saying to retard the advancer timing for starters... that said, I’m slightly perplexed because the bike was firing up very consistently with no kick back ever before i rewired and got a bigger battery. Is it possible for the timing/advancer to get screwed up without doing anything to it? Is it possible that i have some of cords swapped so that it is causing the timing to be off? Could the bigger battery have an affect on it? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. My ankle and knee are about ready for a break, so thought I’d try to trouble shoot before i do any
More ligament damage.

Thanks!
Ryan
hi bud when my timing was out kick back nearly shot me through the roof of the shed its a mean bitch if your timing is out
 
and rewired everything based on the attached diagrams.
I don't see a diagram...
Des it still have the original TCI system? Did you cross wire the advance and retard triggers?
 
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Whoops- here’s the attachment and a few pictures.
 

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Your picture looks similar to a Boyer system.
If you accidentally swap the pickup wires it changes the timing, but on a Boyer system it’s usually too far retarded. Make sure the two wires Black/Yellow, and Black/White are correct to the amplifier box.
If you managed to fit your battery with the polarity reversed it may well have damaged your amplifier box.
Negative ground is the way it should be wired.
 
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Yes- it’s a Boyer system. I just adjusted the plastic (yellow top plate) 5 degreees clockwise. It started up, ran for about 10 seconds (it didn’t sounded okay at best, but definitely inconsistent idle and some
“bumps”- not how it idled preciously) and then it just quit. Now I’m back to the back firing and kickback again.

I’ve done some reading but have found contradicting messages whether turning clockwise is advancing or retarding the timing. Can someone confirm? Also, I’ve removed the cap from down below to check the marks, and I see an entirely different arrangement than all of the posts about adjusting to the “F” mark. The attached picture above is what’s under the the cap- is that what is between me and the stator? . Can i get to the stator and those adjustment marks without taking the whole housing off?
 
As it was running OK before the timing should not need adjusting. Anyhow it’s, turn the plate clockwise to advance the ignition. But I don’t think that’s your problem.
 
rasputin, that’s how it’s set- negative is grounded. And black-yellow and black/white are set as they were when bike was running well- so i assume they’re correct
 
@Rasputin okay... thanks! And you think the issue is elsewhere even though it started up after advancing it a bit? Is it worth trying to retard it some as well? It was pretty much fully advanced when it fired up, no room to go farther in that direction.
 
I just adjusted the plastic (yellow top plate) 5 degreees clockwise.

I’ve done some reading but have found contradicting messages whether turning clockwise is advancing or retarding the timing. Can someone confirm?
Ryan, the engine rotates counter-clockwise as seen from the left. That's both the crank and the camshaft. So, if you moved the plastic plate clockwise then you advanced the timing. The pickups on the plate are going to meet the magnets sooner.

Can't help you with the arrangement over your stator plate - not familiar, but I'm sure someone will help.
 
Ryan, the engine rotates counter-clockwise as seen from the left. That's both the crank and the camshaft. So, if you moved the plastic plate clockwise then you advanced the timing. The pickups on the plate are going to meet the magnets sooner.

Can't help you with the arrangement over your stator plate - not familiar, but I'm sure someone will help.

Super helpful in understanding what exactly is happening. Thanks!!
 
You have an aftermarket charging system, a PMA from Hugh's Handbuilt by the looks of it. Your timing marks are on that sticker along the bottom and you align them with that white paint slash mark that someone made on the alternator. But, who knows how accurate their mark making was, lol. That slash mark is so fat, it probably covers 3° or so.
 
well..... that’s embarrassing. Swapped plug sides and second kick! Haha- thank you all so much! Will post some pictures once she’s completely finished.

No worries, everybody has made a boo-boo like that from time to time.....;)

Pete
 
Soooo... i lied...

The bike idle’d for 10 mins or so after starting it back up a few times... idle was okay sounding. Not perfect but satisfactory for the time being. Rode around for about 2 miles, bike was kinda of rough in general. Not smooth idle/rpm gain in acceleration. Kinda of jumpy and inconsistent. Shut it off for a few hours, and then went to go for a ride (mind you it’s now like 35 degrees f), and the kickback and backfire is now back... but a little bit worse than ever!!

Back to the drawing board! Does this sequence tell you anything about where the problem May lie? It seems like anytime I adjust something it fires up the first or second kick, but then the problem returns after i shut the bike off.... first it was a slight advancement in the timing, and boom no kickback and bike fired up... then problem returns. Then seapped R and L spark plugs and boom problem solved. Fired right up and ran alright for about 20 mins until i shut it off... next thing you know problem is back again.

Ryan
 
Its a Boyer system, we have established that. This system fires both plugs at the same time, so swapping the leads around wouldn’t have made the difference. If you have two coils, one coil maybe faulty, if a double ended coil is used then it could be the plug cap. As you have ridden it since the battery swap, and it ran OK, I would first make sure the marks on your PMA are correct for TDC then reset the Boyer pickup plate as per instructions.
If it’s still not running properly, then the fault is elsewhere. Hope it helps.
PS, Boyer systems don’t like low battery volts, ie, they will stop working at 10V, make sure you have a good charge in the battery.
 
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