Which engine is the better one?

scrapmetal

XS650 Addict
Messages
115
Reaction score
196
Points
43
Location
Canada, Nova Scotia
Which engine is the better one?

I own six XS 650 engines and just one frame( XS1B frame)

3 of them are 447
447-719 558
447-800 387
447-704 412

and 3
S650- 013 593
S650- 012 010
S650- 017 990 engine matches the frame
one of each type is not complete,

All I know about the differences between the two types the 256s are without a electric starter and there is a difference in the filling amount of the engine oil,
Do the 447 fit into the XS1B frame without modifications?
do both types have the same characteristics, what is the spare parts market for the respective type
I don't know the history and mileage of the engines, all I know that the XS1B was driven here in Nova Scotia the other engines came from Ontario If you can decide,
which motor you would like to rebuild and install?
Cheers and Thanks for your opinion
 

Attachments

  • first plate.JPG
    first plate.JPG
    192.3 KB · Views: 174
Gee, Scrapmetal. That is a complex subject. But there are a few here that have enough experience with all the types and can answer your question. I think they can only tell you what significant changes the engines had and the years. You would have to decide. Parts are available for all your motors. Sorry I can't be of more help but my experience is with only one type/year.
Thu
 
S650- 013 593
S650- 012 010
S650- 017 990

I like all 3 of those.
They're all XS1B engines with the Rev-2 cases (has the gussets).
They're all in the range of engines with the important revisions.
The S650- 017 990 will be slightly different, having received the rev-13 head and camcover change. Unfortunately, I can't tell you what precisely that is.

They'll all have the higher 8.7:1 compression pistons, unavailable.

Check out the early engine chronology, Post #7.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/yamaha...ins-service-data-brochures.31022/#post-436609

Finding parts for the 256 engines is challenging and expensive.

Do a forum search on "engine swap", click on "titles only"...
 
Last edited:
Scrapmetal,
I am putting an electric start engine in a 1971 XS1b frame and so far the only mod I have come across is the need to make new front motor mounts. The pic is of an electric start engine serial number S650-125872 in the 1971 XS1b frame. The electric start engine I am using to mock up is a 1972. As the 447 series came about in 1974 someone else will need to confirm if the front case mounts are the same between my 1972 and and 447 engines.
IMG_0308~photo.JPG
 
I'm back. I dug out a 447 engine and put it in the 1971 frame.

First off the front motor mounts will need to be changed. I'm not sure if 447 mounts will work on a 71 frame, but the 71 mounts are a good half hole off, same as the 72 eignie.

IMG_0363~photo.JPG


You will need to use a top motor mount from the 71 frame/engine. This pic shows the 71 top motor mount on a 447 engine in a 71 frame.

IMG_0364~photo.JPG



This pic shows a later motor mount, no idea what year though, on the 447 engine in a 71 frame.

IMG_0361~photo.JPG


Hope this helps.
 
I like all 3 of those.
They're all XS1B engines with the Rev-2 cases (has the gussets).
They're all in the range of engines with the important revisions.
The S650- 017 990 will be slightly different, having received the rev-13 head and camcover change. Unfortunately, I can't tell you what precisely that is.

They'll all have the higher 8.7:1 compression pistons, unavailable.

Check out the early engine chronology, Post #7.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/yamaha...ins-service-data-brochures.31022/#post-436609

Finding parts for the 256 engines is challenging and expensive.

Do a forum search on "engine swap", click on "titles only"...
Very informative, I didn't know this details,
Thank you
I'm back. I dug out a 447 engine and put it in the 1971 frame.

First off the front motor mounts will need to be changed. I'm not sure if 447 mounts will work on a 71 frame, but the 71 mounts are a good half hole off, same as the 72 eignie.

View attachment 152751

You will need to use a top motor mount from the 71 frame/engine. This pic shows the 71 top motor mount on a 447 engine in a 71 frame.

View attachment 152752


This pic shows a later motor mount, no idea what year though, on the 447 engine in a 71 frame.

View attachment 152753

Hope this helps.
First, I want to thank you guys, your knowledge about the XS650 especially the XS1B is amazing.
It was really helpful to find my decision what engine I put into the xs1b frame
Pretty sure now I'm going with the 447.
Need to think about it what I'm doing with the 1B engines,
Is there a market for the whole engines?
Or is it more interesting to part them out?
 
I think I might keep the matching number engine for the frame, maybe sell off the others. But I might scrounge some good parts from the others before selling. Always nice to have a good spare rotor and stator. Your 447 engines appear to be later ones from '77 (700 numbers) and '78 (800 number). I think that's a good thing as they underwent a few more refinements and their parts will readily swap between all 3. They should have the type D cam chain adjuster assembly which isn't the best, but it's easily upgraded to the later type E.

Yes, I'm sure there's a market for whole engines but shipping would be difficult and expensive. Hopefully you could sell them locally.
 
hi together,

thanks again for the expert articles,

I think that I will build one of de 447 motors in the XS 1B frame, but not 100% sure yet
I also talked to a friend in Germany, he had a XS1B and then a TX650, he also said the spare parts for the 447 engine inclusive exhaust are easier and cheaper to get.
Now I have found some new parts that I bought years ago for my XS1B project,
Please look at the pictures, are the parts be good for the XS1 engines from my list, or fit they only certain engines, before or after the respective revisions.
I would be happy to hear from you again
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1336.JPG
    IMG_1336.JPG
    124.7 KB · Views: 183
  • IMG_1341.JPG
    IMG_1341.JPG
    160.7 KB · Views: 187
  • IMG_1715.JPG
    IMG_1715.JPG
    191.5 KB · Views: 197
  • IMG_1718.JPG
    IMG_1718.JPG
    150 KB · Views: 180
  • IMG_1726.JPG
    IMG_1726.JPG
    169.3 KB · Views: 170
  • IMG_1728.JPG
    IMG_1728.JPG
    164.1 KB · Views: 149
  • IMG_1732.JPG
    IMG_1732.JPG
    144.3 KB · Views: 197
  • IMG_1735.JPG
    IMG_1735.JPG
    154.8 KB · Views: 190
  • IMG_1760.JPG
    IMG_1760.JPG
    144.1 KB · Views: 197
  • IMG_1763.JPG
    IMG_1763.JPG
    135.7 KB · Views: 205
  • IMG_1767.JPG
    IMG_1767.JPG
    143.3 KB · Views: 163
Morning Scrapmetal, That is a nice bunch of NOS parts you have there. I'm sure not the parts interchangeability expert that can answer your questions but there are a couple of web sites I have found that have parts breakdowns which can help you out.

https://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-xs650_model16839/ This site, CMS, has a list of different 650 model years which cover the 447 engine. Even though it does not list breakdowns for years having a 256 engine, I did find a breakdown for an XS1b on it. https://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-xs1b-1971-usa_model8376/partslist/#.XblcdZpKjIV

Another site, Yamaha Parts House, also has parts breakdowns for 650's. https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/c/yamaha_motorcycle/parts This link lists years for bikes, Pick a year then then pick your bike.

I'm sure there are other sites out there and maybe someone on this forum can provide you an answer, but these are good places to begin and use as references for information.
 
The first 2 pics, left sidecover, fits the 72-up engines.
Can't help you with the valve springs.
The rocker arm shafts fit all years.
The pistons are later low-compression 1st over 256 pistons.
The lower camchain guide block is for type "A" tensioner.
 
Well I fell better. I thought I was loosing my mind when I was going through a bunch of parts I got with the electric start engine I picked up. There was a side cover that "almost" fit a crankcase but did not have the dowel hole and one mounting hole was way out of place. Same size as the other one that was in the parts but no go for fit.
 

Attachments

  • Left.png
    Left.png
    917.3 KB · Views: 160
busy weekend, first the necessary conditions created to rebuild one or two 447 engines,
Motor447-704 412 turns free,
447-719 558 is seized ??
still need to build the engine stands,
buuuuuuut the sun is out, may a ride on my GL1100- would be a good treatment to end the weekend.
Cheers
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8198.JPG
    IMG_8198.JPG
    215.5 KB · Views: 179
  • IMG_8201.JPG
    IMG_8201.JPG
    196.5 KB · Views: 165
  • IMG_8202.JPG
    IMG_8202.JPG
    199.5 KB · Views: 176
  • IMG_8204.JPG
    IMG_8204.JPG
    227.3 KB · Views: 156
  • IMG_8205.JPG
    IMG_8205.JPG
    241.6 KB · Views: 161
  • IMG_8206.JPG
    IMG_8206.JPG
    246.7 KB · Views: 165
DIRTY ENGINES,
all three 447 engines on the work bench now,
cleaned the real bad dirty engines the last couple days,
just for to have a overview in what condition the motors are, checked for cracked cases, broken bolts and other bad surprises,
only the 447-704 424 seems to be good, but with these unknown history!!, not sure
the incomplete 447-719 558 have a damaged lower case, the top case usable, the crank shaft with the connecting rods not checked yet
447-800 387 with seized pistons like cast in concrete, don't know yet how can I solve this,
719 558 and 447-800 387 have been opened before, but it does not look like a good craftsmanship or how would you judge the reinforced clutch springs, some broken bolts, many damaged screw heads, deep scratches in cases.
I have no exact plan for now, wanted to bring 2 engines back to the road, not on the fast, but really nice aggregates from the old material, hope I can loosen the seized pistons to became the cylinder jugs crankshaft and connecting rods,
you guys may have a few suggestions for me.
I lost a box when moving a few years ago, just missing the starters, some other parts too
but I'm already found starters in the forum, many thanks to DADDYGCYCLES by the way.

Cheers, talk to you soon, scrapmetal
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8205.JPG
    IMG_8205.JPG
    241.6 KB · Views: 169
  • IMG_8230.JPG
    IMG_8230.JPG
    237.8 KB · Views: 213
  • IMG_8231.JPG
    IMG_8231.JPG
    224.5 KB · Views: 138
  • IMG_8232.JPG
    IMG_8232.JPG
    215 KB · Views: 159
  • IMG_8233.JPG
    IMG_8233.JPG
    230.8 KB · Views: 132
  • IMG_8234.JPG
    IMG_8234.JPG
    261.4 KB · Views: 204
  • IMG_8235.JPG
    IMG_8235.JPG
    223 KB · Views: 146
  • IMG_8236.JPG
    IMG_8236.JPG
    197.4 KB · Views: 147
  • IMG_8237.JPG
    IMG_8237.JPG
    201.8 KB · Views: 147
  • IMG_8238.JPG
    IMG_8238.JPG
    201.2 KB · Views: 144
  • IMG_8239.JPG
    IMG_8239.JPG
    234.6 KB · Views: 150
  • IMG_8241.JPG
    IMG_8241.JPG
    204.3 KB · Views: 112
in the worst case, drilling many holes in each pistons without hurting the connecting rods, the idea behind it is to take the stability and structure of the piston to loosen it from the side walls, only in the area the piston rings,- the cylinders have to be drilled out after anyway and than using pistons and rings in oversize,
what you guys think about this idea? and did somebody tried this before?
 
Back
Top