Rear wheel wiggles..thoughts pls...

madmax-im

Yamaha...Go your own way...
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It looks as though i still have the original swingarm bushings. I did the swingarm test with the bike on the centerstand and i was able to wiggle the swingarm laterally...About 1/8th'' each way...How bad is this?
I know about the Bronze bushings...But I am not going to do it personally...then again I dont know who will...
I was getting prepped to buy new shocks and tires ..and even a new chain and sporckets. I am unsure how to proceed...
 
I'm of the opinion that if you can feel any discernible play, it's too much. Then it just becomes a matter of how much you're comfortable with, with your driving style.
What you describe is about a quarter inch of play. At highway speeds and rain grooves, that puts you in the "hairy assed wobble" range.
 
Make sure the dust cap/grease seals are in place on each side of the swingarm, covering the bushings. They make up part of the spacing or shimming and the swingarm will have excess side to side play if they're left off. I encountered one put together without them and at first thought it was a case of really worn bushings ..... until I looked closer.
 
Ya, I would definitely address that. I don't think that is safe. When I got my bike I did all, well let's say most of the standard recommend upgrades, to bring it up to date as much as possible. The only one I wish I didn't do was the tapered steering head bearings. I probably could have left the swing arm bushings also it's an 80 had ab 9000 miles on it and was garage kept. Sounds like in your case tho I'd do the bronze bushings. Def don't ride with that much lateral free play in the swing arm.
 
IMHO, you need to fix the bushing issue before even thinking about new shocks.
I installed this kit in my -77 last spring: https://www.heidentuning.com/xs650-...pers/swing-arm-needle-bearing-kit-detail.html Needle bearings with short brass bushings. I am very satisfied so far.

MikesXs have 2 options: https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-swing-arm-needle-bearing-kit.html
and https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...ing-set-2-oem-90386-22029-90836-22102-00.html
If you decide to go with the latter, cheaper option, you may need this as well: https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...olt-tube-oem-447-22184-00-90386-22102-00.html

Personally, I do believe the Heiden kit is the best compromise, inboard needle bearings take care of the radial loads, the outer brass bushing helps keep water away from the needle bearing, and takes care of sideways thrust loads. For all the above options, regular greasing is very important!
 
I have spoken wwith the previous owner..he has assured me that the original plastic swingarm bushings were replaced with bronze bushings..So it looks like an adjustment is needed..Have not looked to see if the dust covers are on there..Haven't gone out to look yet... But this is good to know that i could proceed to replace the shocks and tires.....
Thankyou for those who took the time to respond.
BTW I am not at all impressed with the "quality" coming from MikesXS...
 
If the bike is going to be a keeper.. go needles... and do the head bearings also. Better shocks.. fork springs.. Yeah.. all a pain six inches below the forth belt loop.. butt.... :) worth the effort and $$.
Swing arm bearings isn't that difficult.. sometimes getting the s/arm rod out is a ..Grrrrrr... had one that would not move.. even with Ox/Ac gas heat.... air hammer.... getting the old bushings out....I use a 3 inch section of hacksaw blade clamped in a vise grip... cut the old bushing almost to the metal... then it's easy to take out...
 
Yes, it's possible the P.O. just didn't tighten the pivot bolt to spec. I found that on my new-to-me '83. The bushings seemed to have some play but the bike rode OK. When I went to remove the arm, I found the pivot bolt wasn't tightened enough. I snugged it up and the play I thought was wear disappeared. There is a torque spec range to use on this pivot bolt, 36-58 ft/lbs. Start at 36 and work your way up a few lbs at a time until the play disappears (hopefully). If it doesn't by the time you reach the max then yes, the bushings are worn out. The TX750 arm I swapped in required about 45 ft/lbs to be set right (fall gently under it's own weight).
 
I have spoken wwith the previous owner..he has assured me that the original plastic swingarm bushings were replaced with bronze bushings..So it looks like an adjustment is needed..Have not looked to see if the dust covers are on there..Haven't gone out to look yet... But this is good to know that i could proceed to replace the shocks and tires.....
Thankyou for those who took the time to respond.
BTW I am not at all impressed with the "quality" coming from MikesXS...
If he did install bronze/ brass bushings, it is still possible that the bushings were sloppy to begin with, or that the origanial steel sleeve was worn, but reused anyway. Or that everything was ok after installing, but worn out due to lack of regular greasing.
I still think you should get the swing arm 100% slop free before getting new shocks. Although that may not be what you like to hear.
 
If he did install bronze/ brass bushings, it is still possible that the bushings were sloppy to begin with, or that the origanial steel sleeve was worn, but reused anyway. Or that everything was ok after installing, but worn out due to lack of regular greasing.
I still think you should get the swing arm 100% slop free before getting new shocks. Although that may not be what you like to hear.
Agreed
 
Yes, and that's how you install and test it too, just the bare arm. Torque the pivot bolt until the arm just drops slowly under it's own weight.
 
Informed speculation here Max without disassembly and pics. You have to remove the wheel, chain, guard and shockies to set the "drop" so, do that and torque it up as 5T suggests. If it still waggles, you may as well take the swing arm out.There is beaucoup information for bushing removal on this forum so you could search that up and follow the instructions - a bit of careful hacksawing and hammering but it is owner do-able. Any decent machine shop should be able to remove the old bushings and pop in new ones if you're not inclined to wrestle with it yourself. The end seals are available from Yamaha as are the shims that take up any excessive space between the bushing face and the end of the inner tube, (which should extend a couple of thou past the bushings). I got shims from Heiden, a little pricey for what they are, but effective. If you do strip it down, look for the shims to be "greased" in place inside the swing arm seals. They are thin and easily missed. Mikes sells the inner tube, (Arctic's reference), if yours is worn but there have been questions about the length so you might want to eBay an original in good nick. You can drill a couple of extra holes in the inner tube to facilitate lubrication and fit a grease zerk in the upper middle of the arm. Any competent home mechanic could do it all in an afternoon. Took me a couple of weeks but then, I had to wait for parts and my competence is a matter for debate.
Cheers
 
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Jus' cuz I kinda got a dog in this fight.
Rear wheel moves an 1/8" in relation to what?
Yes check the pivot nut, tighten if needed, but don't go godzilla on it.
It's not in the manual but some of the later frames benefit by inserting a machine shim 'tween frame and the dust shield.

 
It's not in the manual but some of the later frames benefit by inserting a machine shim 'tween frame and the dust shield.
'Zackly!!!

MVIMG_20180228_161300.jpg
 
Great pic Jim, thanks!
IIRC a hardware store 3/4" machine shim or 2 does the job.
Cuz if you try to draw that frame together to close a big gap; the frame pivot bores get squeezed out of parallel, putting bending stress on pivot and frame. A fair number of guys have broken pivot shafts at the nut. I suspect over torquing trying to close this gap on later frames is (sometimes?) the reason.
 
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Thanks y'all..
first off..i had the bike on the centerstand..wheels on the bike so the rear wheel can move about 1/8" sideways.. from midline of the bike...I havent the expertise or knowledge y'all have,,,but Thanks for sharing this information...I'm gonna need more than online help.. i dont have any tools and i am not a mechanic..wtf am i doing here?
 
Thanks y'all..
first off..i had the bike on the centerstand..wheels on the bike so the rear wheel can move about 1/8" sideways.. from midline of the bike...I havent the expertise or knowledge y'all have,,,but Thanks for sharing this information...I'm gonna need more than online help.. i dont have any tools and i am not a mechanic..wtf am i doing here?

First of all, you need to clarify whether the front end of the swing arm moves sideways inside the frame. If that is the case, either the grease seals are missing, or you need to add shims.
If the front end/pivot area does not move sideways, but the aft end of the swing arm moves, something is worn out or badly manufactured. It could be the bronze bushings, the steel sleeves, or the pivot bolt. Or a combination of wear on all 3. I would disassemble, de-grease, and check where slack/play can be found. Ideally, everything should be a light slip fit without any significant play. If you find play between pivot bolt and sleeves, you need to measure the bolt to determine what is worn. Likewise with the steel sleeves vs bronze bushings. Since you in any case need to disassemble, it makes sense to clean and check everything thoroughly, instead of just installing new bushings and hope for the best.

Surely you have some basic tools, like spanners, sockets and a hammer? That is pretty much all you need to remove the swing arm from the frame. Then you need a long punch, or just a suitable piece of small diameter round bar or tubing, for removing the worn bushings from the swing arm. To fit new bushings, you need a piece of 1/2" to 3/4" all thread, 2 large washers and 2 nuts. Just use the all thread to pull the new bushings into the swing arm. Easy peasy.
 
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