ExtraRegularGuy
XS650 Enthusiast
It was a joke man
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The infamous sump gasket
- Thread starter ExtraRegularGuy
- Start date
ExtraRegularGuy
XS650 Enthusiast
The worst is definitely assumed here, that's for sure. There was just a piece of old gasket left on the case the I didn't quite see. I handled it and the sump is sealed pretty well.
An old thread might be just as good as a new one. I've done this a bunch of times no trouble. I filled my barn find XS650E up with fresh oil after installation of a new screen. It's leaking. 
I changed oil on my '83 Special. That one had never had the gasket glued on. It's leaking.
I wanted to check the sump screen on the Special. It got a Mikes XS screen more years ago than I can remember. It's still fine. I put the bolts in with a torque wrench. Maybe that was a problem. I couldn't get 85 in lbs on one of the bolts before I realized it wouldn't make it. This is the first time I ever had this problem and now I have two machines making a mess! The gasket is leaking on both of them.
I like to say, there's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over! I guess I'm ordering some sump gaskets and an M6 thread repair.
I changed oil on my '83 Special. That one had never had the gasket glued on. It's leaking. I wanted to check the sump screen on the Special. It got a Mikes XS screen more years ago than I can remember. It's still fine. I put the bolts in with a torque wrench. Maybe that was a problem. I couldn't get 85 in lbs on one of the bolts before I realized it wouldn't make it. This is the first time I ever had this problem and now I have two machines making a mess! The gasket is leaking on both of them.
I like to say, there's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over! I guess I'm ordering some sump gaskets and an M6 thread repair.
Shoot, feel for ya. I have to admit that working under an XS650 is just not much fun anymore.I'm ordering some sump gaskets and an M6 thread repair.
Good luck !
-R
I have no excuse. My bike is on a lift. Maybe I’ll have to flip it upside down.
Hi Marty, I. Sorry to hear you stripped a bolt hole, I’ve always been nervous about doing that myself. I’ll just go ahead and add my experience with it here. There are some comments about the bolt holes and getting the case surface really well prepped, that maybe someone will find useful.
Post#894
http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-60th-birthday-present.47639/page-45#post-522964
Post#894
http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-60th-birthday-present.47639/page-45#post-522964
Michaelo
650Mick
‘Hey Marty, you could always drop the engine out...
still in all seriousness, going oversize for a proper repair, there are some holes that are hard to get to (that sounds a bit dodgy)
Mick
I broke a bolt in the sump plate torquing it down. I got real lucky and was able to back out as there was little sticking out that was able to grab. I am real hesitant torquing bolts on that plate. I tighten by feel now on and so far no broken bolts.
Hmmmm... Do you think I may have stretched the bolt rather than stripped the case? I’d expect the opposite.
My clutch is worn out and I forgot about it. My wife just asked me to get rid of a box. Lo and behold, there’s a clutch in it! So, I should drain the oil anyway.
My clutch is worn out and I forgot about it. My wife just asked me to get rid of a box. Lo and behold, there’s a clutch in it! So, I should drain the oil anyway.
Hey Mick! Where ya been?
I’m going to try a Harley-Davidson fix. If it fails, I’m out nothing. I’ll post it up when I get to it.
The original sump bolts are supposed to be special "break off" bolts. They're supposed to break off before they strip, something to keep in mind if you decide to replace them. I replaced mine with stainless but I always use a torque wrench on them, and I go slowly. I never set them over 80 in/lbs and lately I've begun reducing that number down to around 70. So far the lesser torque setting has been working, sealing OK, and I'm sure it's easier on the bolt holes. I always lube the bolts (anti-seize) and from what I've read, you're supposed to reduce the torque when doing that. So, my lubed bolts at 70 are probably as tight and giving the same holding pressure as dry bolts at a higher setting.
I try to reuse the gasket as many times as I can. I find the Athena/MikesXS green gasket works better for this than an original. The originals are very delicate and difficult to remove multiple times without breaking.
I try to reuse the gasket as many times as I can. I find the Athena/MikesXS green gasket works better for this than an original. The originals are very delicate and difficult to remove multiple times without breaking.
my current gasket is one i made myself from gasket paper from autozone. worked great the first time, but not the second. going to replace it with one from a super cheap original era nos gasket set from ebay, probably 99.9% asbestos. was a great set, for like $11.
I did not realize those were shear bolts. That’s good news.
You are correct about torque values. Unless otherwise specified, torque values are expressed for clean, dry threads. Lubricant will increase the applied torque. That could be where I went wrong. 85 in lbs set, but I didn’t clean the bolts.
The OE gasket was a fairly thick asbestos material. The last OE sump gasket I bought was not as original. I assume they went away. The last one I got had a warning on the package as I recall.
Partzilla has those bolts @ $0.69 ea. I believe I may just pick them up at True Value.
Maybe while looking to replace the sump plate bolts you could find the appropriate size flange head bolts ? It seems the flange heads circular contact area would cinch up nice and consistently to each other and spread the force to the plate holes slightly better. Torque feel may also be better ?
The ‘82 & ‘83 have a single socket head on the left side due to the side stand switch.
I can't believe you still have those switches on there. That was one of the first things I removed on my '83, lol. All it took was doing one filter plate removal to convince me that stuff had to go. The simpler early style stand and spring post bracket were fitted in their place .....
The removal is simple, no wire jumping required. But, you must remove both the switch AND the relay. If you just take the switch off, the bike will only run in neutral. The new parts make sump plate bolt access a piece of cake .....
The removal is simple, no wire jumping required. But, you must remove both the switch AND the relay. If you just take the switch off, the bike will only run in neutral. The new parts make sump plate bolt access a piece of cake .....
I can't believe you still have those switches on there. That was one of the first things I removed on my '83, lol. All it took was doing one filter plate removal to convince me that stuff had to go. The simpler early style stand and spring post bracket were fitted in their place .....
The removal is simple, no wire jumping required. But, you must remove both the switch AND the relay. If you just take the switch off, the bike will only run in neutral. The new parts make sump plate bolt access a piece of cake .....
OK. That does look like a good idea. My switch was removed long ago defective. It has a jumper installed. I would leave well enough alone, but my sidestand is pretty sloppy. It might be nearing time to replace it anyway. So, where is that relay hiding?
Under the left side cover, right next to where the switch was plugged in .....
Simply remove it. You can then remove the jumper wire you put in the switch plug too. When the deed is done, this is what you'll have left, two empty harness plugs .....
This sidestand relay acts upon the TCI. There is a wire running from it to the TCI. When triggered, the relay connects that wire to a ground wire which shorts out the TCI and kills your spark. Remove the relay and you eliminate the possibility of connecting that TCI wire to the ground wire since it happens inside the relay. So, no jumper wires needed, just remove the relay and TCI grounding can't happen anymore.
Simply remove it. You can then remove the jumper wire you put in the switch plug too. When the deed is done, this is what you'll have left, two empty harness plugs .....
This sidestand relay acts upon the TCI. There is a wire running from it to the TCI. When triggered, the relay connects that wire to a ground wire which shorts out the TCI and kills your spark. Remove the relay and you eliminate the possibility of connecting that TCI wire to the ground wire since it happens inside the relay. So, no jumper wires needed, just remove the relay and TCI grounding can't happen anymore.
