Miss November XS2 tribute

When it comes to handlebars, my personal favorite is the Euro bar. Lower than stock like Raymond's (but not too low) but they have one important difference - they droop down slightly on the ends. This turns your wrists to a more natural angle and makes them very, very comfortable. I put them on all my bikes now .....

7zJUwvH.jpg


lzutB53.jpg
 
Starting to take a look at what I have bought - the 2F0 engine.

My thinking just now is to do an engine transplant. Trying to work out what obstacles there are and what work-arounds / new parts if any are needed.

A few questions:


PICT2098.JPG


Would I be right in thinking that this is a later generator than the one in the 1978 447- engine?

And would that mean that the regulator or rectifier or both that I have are not gonna work? Will the combined rec/reg I bought a while ago be able to do the job? That would be a result!

Thinking of swapping over the Boyer ignition. Looking at the camshaft:

PICT2099.JPG


this doesn't look the same as the camshaft that's in the 447- Is it just missing a bushing? Which I might be able to reuse from the other engine? Or is the camshaft a different part completely?

The guy who sold me the engine gave me a timing shaft:

PICT2100.JPG


Which I fondly imagine would have held the factory TCI sender?

With the correct bushings in place, will the Boyer threaded rod fit in place of this factory rod?

Was intending to ride the bike. Maybe wipe off any oil appearing from the timing housing. Not think about the new engine till the 'off season'.

But given the present lock-down, the off season has arrived early.
 
Last edited:
Yes, that is the later style alternator for the electronic ignition models. The little black box mounted on it's upper right is the ignition pick-up and the brushes are wired differently. So yes, that means your current regulator won't work with it. The rectifier will, all 650s use the same kind of rectifier.

On your current '78 stator, the inner brush is grounded full time (through it's mounting screws) and the outer brush is fed regulated power from the regulator. This power switching kind of regulator is known as a "B" type. On your "new" later stator, the brushes are wired opposite. The inner brush is fed constant switched power, it's powered any time the key is on. The outer brush is fed a regulated ground from the regulator. This ground switching kind of regulator is known as an "A" type. Easiest solution for you would be to swap your '78 alternator onto the "new" motor. Then you wouldn't need to change regulators or any wiring.

You will need to determine whether your new combined reg/rec contains an A or B type regulator to know if it will work with the new style stator. Aftermarket combined units are made both ways.

The camshaft is the same, just missing the bushings. Yamaha simply left them out because they weren't needed anymore with the electronic ignition. There is absolutely nothing inside those little points and advance housings on the electronic ignition models, just as your pic shows. Notice how the little rubber plug on the lower right has no hole through it for wires. There was nothing inside the housing to run them to. Yes, you would need to install some bushings to support an advance rod or your Boyer threaded rod. The original set-up had two bushings in each end but you probably don't need that. On the original, the advance rod turned in these bushings. On your Boyer, there would be no turning, they would simply be spacers to keep the threaded rod centered in the bore through the cam. They still sell the original bushings but you probably don't even need them. A properly sized metric bushing from a bearing house would work just as well and probably be cheaper.
 
I may be all wet here 5Twins - but wouldn’t Raymond’s alternator rotor require magnets to trigger the TCI ignition system?

I had always understood that TCI rotors were different from the earlier “points” rotors in that one detail.
 
Thank you 5T for a very helpful answer. I might be able to pull the bushings out of the 'old' camshaft? Will do some research to see whether the rec/reg is type A or B. As you say, it might be easiest just to swap the alternators over. Pete's question, if I have understood, seems to highlight need to swap rotors as well as stators? Or is it a bit more complicated?
 
Yes, but he's not contemplating using a TCI, he has a Boyer. He could leave the later magnet equipped rotor in place if he swapped motors. It would work just fine with his old stator. What doesn't work is swapping the other way, trying to use an older rotor with no magnet on a TCI equipped bike. The ignition wouldn't get triggered and fire.

I never tried to remove stock bushings but I'm thinking it may not be easy without damaging them. I think I'd be more inclined to just get new ones for the "new" engine, they're not very expensive. But be aware that you need to thoroughly clean and prep the bearing bores. Yamaha didn't bother doing this because they weren't installing bushings. Some guys have had problems, splitting the end of the cam when they tried to drive the new bushings in. I would actually sand the O.D. of the bushing some to the point where it drove in very easy. It doesn't need to be a really tight fit in there anymore because it's not going to be acting as a bushing (nothing is turning inside it), it's just a spacer now.
 
A couple more things - drilling your disc will greatly improve how it works when wet, help a little when dry too. You may not feel the need to replace it then, I never did - but I do want them drilled. And consider re-routing your front brake line. Keep it in front of the lower tree like you have it, just route it behind that beauty plate like so .....

SecvIYM.jpg


On the front of the lower tree, there are a couple drilled and tapped holes from where the original line splitter mounted. You can add a rubber lined clip there to route the line through .....

PKlR6YY.jpg


bSwxpn8.jpg
5T, where does one find the rubber lined clamp, and what was the born purpose for the one you use?
 
Here is the thread where I fitted the Boyer Branden (BB) ignition to an SH model:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/boyer-bransden-ignition-1981-yamaha-xs650-sh.48040/
The function of the bushes in the camshaft are purely that of spacers to keep the BB threaded shaft approximately centered during installation. They perform no bearing function in use.

The easiest solution is to buy the original bushes. You could probably buy a bushing online cheaper but you may have to mount it in a drill chuck and file the outside down a little to fit the camshaft: camshaft may not have been finished off accurately at the factory since no bush was to be fitted - 5twins commented on this above. The BB fittings are approximately 12mm OD so may be a slightly loose fit in an accurate 12mm ID bushing, but this is not super important here.

If you get really stuck I will make a copy of my Aluminium spacers for you.
 
Trying to find out more about the rec/reg I bought. Generic Chinese-made. There is no info on the unit, it has 7 wires - 3 white, 1 red, 1 black, 1 brown and 1 pale green.

The seller's description does not make it clear if this is type A or B. In fact, about all it says is

Compatible with:
Yamaha XS400 (D.o.h.c) 1982-1985
Yamaha XS650 1978-1983
Yamaha FZ600 1987-1989
Yamaha FJ600 1984-1985
Yamaha YX600 1986-1988


From what 5T says, which I believe over an ebay seller, there would not be one unit suitable for all those years of XS650. Hmmm.
 
The seller's description does not make it clear if this is type A or B. In fact, about all it says is
Compatible with:
  • Yamaha XS650 1978-1983
From what 5T says, which I believe over an ebay seller, there would not be one unit suitable for all those years of XS650. Hmmm.

BINGO - I suspect you are dead-on Raymond. It would be suitable for either a '78-79 - OR - an 80-83 (but not both).

I am pretty sure that my reg-rec unit had only six wires - but I will stand back and allow the experts to explain in more depth.
 
But, have managed to buy a pair of camshaft bushes. From a seller in Germany. The description even helpfully says Required for fitting Boyer. Often missing 1980-85

Now just have to see how long international postage takes in, uhm, the present circumstances.


PS Rasputin - we crossed in the post! Thank you for your very kind offer but I won't cancel the order just placed.
 
If you pm me your address I’ll make you a couple and send them.

But, have managed to buy a pair of camshaft bushes. From a seller in Germany. The description even helpfully says Required for fitting Boyer. Often missing 1980-85

Now just have to see how long international postage takes in, uhm, the present circumstances.


PS Rasputin - we crossed in the post! Thank you for your very kind offer but I won't cancel the order just placed.

What a great group this is!
Maybe_its_the_beer_talking.JPG
 
This '78-'83 parts listing mistake happens quite a bit and for several items. I think the reason is that these parts sellers aren't familiar with 650s like we are, they don't own them. To see what years a part may fit, they simply refer to the Yamaha parts diagrams - and those diagrams are wrong, lol. The electrical parts diagram for the '78 and '79 Special models show the later combined reg/rec. Carb diagram shows the BS34s and the related "Intake" diagram lists the corresponding BS34 manifolds.
 
But, have managed to buy a pair of camshaft bushes. From a seller in Germany. The description even helpfully says Required for fitting Boyer. Often missing 1980-85

Now just have to see how long international postage takes in, uhm, the present circumstances.


PS Rasputin - we crossed in the post! Thank you for your very kind offer but I won't cancel the order just placed.
You should be OK. I’m sure the Boyer set up is just a piece of 8mm all thread, not sure without looking if Boyer provide stepped collars. The inside dia of Yamahas original bushes are bigger than 8mm so you will need the stepped collars off your set up anyway. In short you don’t need the bushes.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    160.4 KB · Views: 126
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    238 KB · Views: 168
To see what years a part may fit, they simply refer to the Yamaha parts diagrams - and those diagrams are wrong, lol. The electrical parts diagram for the '78 and '79 Special models show the later combined reg/rec.

Thanks again, 5T, the good news from this is that the reg/rec I bought might have been wrong for the 447- motor but correct for the 2F0- ?? Is there any way to check?

I’m sure the Boyer set up is just a piece of 8mm all thread, not sure without looking if Boyer provide stepped collars.

Rasputin, Boyer provide stepped collars. Without checking (disclaimer required as memory is as fallible as, uhm, what were we talking about?) the Boyer collars take up the slack between the 8mm threaded rod and the Yamaha camshaft bushes. So I will need the bushes to be able to swap the Boyer system.

Not in any hurry, but the idea of an engine swap starting to look very doable.
 
Back
Top