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1976 XS650-C Project From Ireland
- Thread starter beano
- Start date
That explains why they equipped the XS with such weedy fork legs - parts bin availability, as other makers did.
Although, having said that, I don't find the relatively spindly front end to show up at all, as mine handles quite well enough, probably helped by the bike not being a porker in the first place, unlike the early GS750s for example, which used the same size fork legs.
To this day, I'm still not sure if the PO did any suspension mods to the front - he'd certainly spent a lot on improvements on other parts of the bike.
How do we do that search trick where you have a part number and then can find all the bikes it was common to? I have seen it mentioned on this forum but cannot find the link.
Thank you
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle
I use them a lot to x-reff 'zuk parts. Very, very useful as zuk turned out loads of parts-bin specials over the years. Why remake something that works fine?
There are a few other dealers that use the same database / layout with the x-ref facility.
I use them a lot to x-reff 'zuk parts. Very, very useful as zuk turned out loads of parts-bin specials over the years. Why remake something that works fine?
There are a few other dealers that use the same database / layout with the x-ref facility.
Use with a caution that some of those crossed referenced part no's can be wrong, or some models shouldn't be included. Have found that on occasion and have used the parts manuals, (the650cafe and biker.net), as another cross reference.
More so around 72/73/74 models
More so around 72/73/74 models
Hi Paul, similar to those above, what I do is, go on to one of those sites like partzilla or cmsnl, then find the bike and part that I’m looking for from the drawings. Then copy and paste the part numbers either into google or through the websites own part number search function. This normally gives you a list of bikes to choose from.
For those who were wondering (looking at you @MaxPete ) the silencers are in fact brand new and were sourced almost completely by accident.
Those that have been following this thread may remember that a few months ago I encountered difficulty trying to find information on the front master cylinder. Being unique to Euro model, information is scarce on this site which lead to me to a trawl on google. One particular hit lead me to the German XS650 forum, xs650.de
The forum appears to have been going a very long time and seems to still have good traffic so using google translate I found it quite easy to search and find what I was looking for. The forum has its own Swiss version of Jim who does cool things like building his own ignition systems, hydraulic cam chain tensioners etc. But he also resizes the euro master cylinders by sleeving them down to 11/16 which according to the Germans anyway, seems to be the perfect size for our twin disk set ups. His website is here if you want to take a look:
http://www.steffi-graf.ch/
Anyway, it was while searching through one of these threads that I encountered another mysterious Swiss guy by the name of Bela, and this guy makes silencers. In fact, he hand makes almost exact replicas of both the 76 tapered style silencers (which I purchased) and also does the 75 cigar shaped pipes with the bend which the Germans refer to as “banana” silencers. These are excellent copies right the way down to stamping the part number on them!!
I always liked the shape of the tapered silencers for the 76 on roadster models and really struggled to find anything that I liked (the long commando type ones were what I was going to settle for) so I was delighted to come across this guy. I sent him an email using google translate – he sent me an email back in English! Three weeks and €600 later and they finally turned up, totally worth the wait!
The pipes are hard to photograph due to being so shiny and it nearly killed me to place them on the dirty floor for the pictures but they needed to be shown off somehow.
Yes, I know I could have bought a full commando system for that price including headers, but I talked myself into buying these which I think has left me at the crossroads of where to go with this bike. Reading Mailmans and Jims threads and all the other wonderful restorations detailed on the site has me really wanting to go down that route, I think doing so would really honour my father, but I’d also like to ride this bike around, and so I think something that’s sympathetic to the original look such as original paint, fenders, silencers etc but subtle upgrades such as good shocks and ultimately a 750cc kit may be the road to go down in the long term.
To this end I don’t really know what to tackle next, the bike starts and runs good (on the workbench), has good compression, and all the electrics work including the charging system.
I think the next step from here is to clean and de-rust the fuel tank and fully mock up the bike and list anything that’s missing, I'm sure I have most things accounted for, but it should be obvious once everything is mocked up. Then once that’s done double check all the bolts to make sure it’s reasonably safe and take it out for a couple of runs up the road.
Once I can confirm the engine and gearbox are ok then I suppose the next stage is to strip her down and go from there.
It all sounds so simple doesn’t it……………..
Those that have been following this thread may remember that a few months ago I encountered difficulty trying to find information on the front master cylinder. Being unique to Euro model, information is scarce on this site which lead to me to a trawl on google. One particular hit lead me to the German XS650 forum, xs650.de
The forum appears to have been going a very long time and seems to still have good traffic so using google translate I found it quite easy to search and find what I was looking for. The forum has its own Swiss version of Jim who does cool things like building his own ignition systems, hydraulic cam chain tensioners etc. But he also resizes the euro master cylinders by sleeving them down to 11/16 which according to the Germans anyway, seems to be the perfect size for our twin disk set ups. His website is here if you want to take a look:
http://www.steffi-graf.ch/
Anyway, it was while searching through one of these threads that I encountered another mysterious Swiss guy by the name of Bela, and this guy makes silencers. In fact, he hand makes almost exact replicas of both the 76 tapered style silencers (which I purchased) and also does the 75 cigar shaped pipes with the bend which the Germans refer to as “banana” silencers. These are excellent copies right the way down to stamping the part number on them!!
I always liked the shape of the tapered silencers for the 76 on roadster models and really struggled to find anything that I liked (the long commando type ones were what I was going to settle for) so I was delighted to come across this guy. I sent him an email using google translate – he sent me an email back in English! Three weeks and €600 later and they finally turned up, totally worth the wait!
The pipes are hard to photograph due to being so shiny and it nearly killed me to place them on the dirty floor for the pictures but they needed to be shown off somehow.
Yes, I know I could have bought a full commando system for that price including headers, but I talked myself into buying these which I think has left me at the crossroads of where to go with this bike. Reading Mailmans and Jims threads and all the other wonderful restorations detailed on the site has me really wanting to go down that route, I think doing so would really honour my father, but I’d also like to ride this bike around, and so I think something that’s sympathetic to the original look such as original paint, fenders, silencers etc but subtle upgrades such as good shocks and ultimately a 750cc kit may be the road to go down in the long term.
To this end I don’t really know what to tackle next, the bike starts and runs good (on the workbench), has good compression, and all the electrics work including the charging system.
I think the next step from here is to clean and de-rust the fuel tank and fully mock up the bike and list anything that’s missing, I'm sure I have most things accounted for, but it should be obvious once everything is mocked up. Then once that’s done double check all the bolts to make sure it’s reasonably safe and take it out for a couple of runs up the road.
Once I can confirm the engine and gearbox are ok then I suppose the next stage is to strip her down and go from there.
It all sounds so simple doesn’t it……………..
Guess I missed this build somehow. Just went back and read up to present. Looking forward to seeing it come together.
Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
Hand made OE pipes...wOw!
Hey @Jim thanks for checking in, I'm a big fan of what you've achieved with the SG it’s been quite inspiring.
@Norton7d They're pretty aint they, I find myself going out to the garage every now and again to just look at them.............I know........I have problems.
I’ve also been busy the last couple of days editing some of my earlier posts due to my pictures being originally uploaded to photobucket.
What a pain in the ass that was, spent ages downloading the pics then re-uploading them to imgur!! Anyway, while I was in there I fixed some spelling mistakes and re-worded some passages to make them clearer, should make the thread easier to follow.
What to do next?? decisions decisions.......
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May Update
Alrighty then, its been a long time since the last update, we went into lockdown here in Ireland back in March, stranding me 70 miles away from the XS. This wasn’t all bad as I managed to complete my studies and hopefully (results dependant) will be walking away with my BEng in Mechanical Engineering in October, (just have to finish my project over the summer). I think @MaxPete will be proud!
In that time, I’ve been keeping an eye out in the classifieds and managed to purchase a job lot of old parts from the UK which were posted for sale on one of the facebook groups. Those who have been following know that I needed an original master cylinder, and this guy had both that and what looked like an original Euro spec front fender along with some other stuff.
The fender was very rough, but I thought if I could bag the parts for cheap then it would be worth a punt just to satisfy my own curiosity. So, after some “over and back” with the seller, we agreed a price that I thought was quite reasonable.
Fast forward a few weeks and I managed to sneak home once the lockdown was eased slightly here. I head out to the shed to unpack my goodies.
First up and upon first inspection of the fender there was a bit of a surprise. In addition to the two horizontal holes where the front stay mounts, there were also two holes drilled longitudinally on the fender in an asymmetric pattern.
Turning the fender over revealed what appeared to be a washer underneath one of these holes. So, I grabbed a brass brush and cleaned the area to see if I could remove it when I noticed that it wasn’t actually a washer, there were three little spot welds on it and it looked very much like a factory fitted reinforcement on the guard.
This seemed odd especially when compared to the lower hole which looked like it was just drilled straight through.
This piqued my interest, I know that up until August 1975 it was a legal requirement to display a front registration plate in the UK, and there is actually a diagram of this in the Euro parts manuals. However, of all the XS650 groups that I am part of I have never actually seen one that has survived to this day. The only one I ever remember seeing was this one of an XS-2 posted on the UK owners facebook group.
Going back to the parts book seemingly made things even muddier, not only do the drawings depict a U.S type guard (albeit with the proper Euro part numbers) but it also shows the lower most hole drilled in front of the stay rather than behind it where it is drilled on my one.
After thinking about it for a while, I am reasonably convinced that what I have is indeed a 75 UK spec guard and there is an inaccuracy in the drawings. My theory is that there wasn’t a standard size of front registration plate in use, requiring the second hole to be drilled upon fitting. I am obviously open to correction on this but it seems the most likely to me anyway.
After some more digging around I finally found this picture which seems to depict the registration plate mounted behind the stay which seems to agree with my theory and at the very least proves that there were some 75’s that came with a front registration plate fitted.
Mystery seemingly solved, it was time to get the measuring tape out and finally document the differences between the two (measurements are of course approximate)
This is for @650Skull and the other anorak xs650 archivists, I think you will enjoy this post more than the others. Hope it helps someone out in the future.
Front fender U.S part number – 447-21511-00-93
Front fender Euro part number – 533-21511-00-93
Alrighty then, its been a long time since the last update, we went into lockdown here in Ireland back in March, stranding me 70 miles away from the XS. This wasn’t all bad as I managed to complete my studies and hopefully (results dependant) will be walking away with my BEng in Mechanical Engineering in October, (just have to finish my project over the summer). I think @MaxPete will be proud!
In that time, I’ve been keeping an eye out in the classifieds and managed to purchase a job lot of old parts from the UK which were posted for sale on one of the facebook groups. Those who have been following know that I needed an original master cylinder, and this guy had both that and what looked like an original Euro spec front fender along with some other stuff.
The fender was very rough, but I thought if I could bag the parts for cheap then it would be worth a punt just to satisfy my own curiosity. So, after some “over and back” with the seller, we agreed a price that I thought was quite reasonable.
Fast forward a few weeks and I managed to sneak home once the lockdown was eased slightly here. I head out to the shed to unpack my goodies.
First up and upon first inspection of the fender there was a bit of a surprise. In addition to the two horizontal holes where the front stay mounts, there were also two holes drilled longitudinally on the fender in an asymmetric pattern.
Turning the fender over revealed what appeared to be a washer underneath one of these holes. So, I grabbed a brass brush and cleaned the area to see if I could remove it when I noticed that it wasn’t actually a washer, there were three little spot welds on it and it looked very much like a factory fitted reinforcement on the guard.
This seemed odd especially when compared to the lower hole which looked like it was just drilled straight through.
This piqued my interest, I know that up until August 1975 it was a legal requirement to display a front registration plate in the UK, and there is actually a diagram of this in the Euro parts manuals. However, of all the XS650 groups that I am part of I have never actually seen one that has survived to this day. The only one I ever remember seeing was this one of an XS-2 posted on the UK owners facebook group.
Going back to the parts book seemingly made things even muddier, not only do the drawings depict a U.S type guard (albeit with the proper Euro part numbers) but it also shows the lower most hole drilled in front of the stay rather than behind it where it is drilled on my one.
After thinking about it for a while, I am reasonably convinced that what I have is indeed a 75 UK spec guard and there is an inaccuracy in the drawings. My theory is that there wasn’t a standard size of front registration plate in use, requiring the second hole to be drilled upon fitting. I am obviously open to correction on this but it seems the most likely to me anyway.
After some more digging around I finally found this picture which seems to depict the registration plate mounted behind the stay which seems to agree with my theory and at the very least proves that there were some 75’s that came with a front registration plate fitted.
Mystery seemingly solved, it was time to get the measuring tape out and finally document the differences between the two (measurements are of course approximate)
This is for @650Skull and the other anorak xs650 archivists, I think you will enjoy this post more than the others. Hope it helps someone out in the future.
Front fender U.S part number – 447-21511-00-93
Front fender Euro part number – 533-21511-00-93
Hi beano: Sorry for having missed so many exciting posts!
Wow - so much to talk about....
- first of all - CONGRATULATIONS on finishing your engineering degree.
That is truly a huge milestone in your life and career and I am confident that you’ll make a fine mechanical engineer. I graduated in 1981 and have had a wonderful career that has enabled me to work all over the world in several different industry sectors ranging from petroleum in West Africa to manufacturing all over North America and lately, the R&D and educational sectors in Europe and Canada all while supporting my family and doing what I <mostly> enjoyed with people who I <generally> liked. Well done indeed!
- those mufflers (aka silencers) are spectacular - WOW! Would I love to have a set of those! I suspect the shipping to Canada would kill me though. Do you have a linky to the supplier?
- that UK/Euro spec fender issue is fascinating. I always found the UK-style fore & aft mounting licence plates to be attractive but as I understand it, they were banned many years ago because they pose such a hazard to pedestrians. That may not be correct - but so I’ve been told.
- I loved your remark about Jim..is there anything he isn’t good at? We are so fortunate to be members of such a diverse and talented community from all over the world with people like Jim, Gary, TwoMany, 5Twins, Grizld1, Mailman, Lakeview, GLJ, Machine, Brassneck, Team Junk, YamaDude (another XS650C aficionado), Paul Sutton, Skull and so many others who are willing to share their expertise with the group. I enjoy <nearly> every minute of my interactions with XS650.com.
Anyhow, I have a consulting gig that is calling my name, so I’d better get at it. Please post more photos and perhaps an overall shot of your bike would be good to see.
Cheers,
Pete
Wow - so much to talk about....
- first of all - CONGRATULATIONS on finishing your engineering degree.
That is truly a huge milestone in your life and career and I am confident that you’ll make a fine mechanical engineer. I graduated in 1981 and have had a wonderful career that has enabled me to work all over the world in several different industry sectors ranging from petroleum in West Africa to manufacturing all over North America and lately, the R&D and educational sectors in Europe and Canada all while supporting my family and doing what I <mostly> enjoyed with people who I <generally> liked. Well done indeed!
- those mufflers (aka silencers) are spectacular - WOW! Would I love to have a set of those! I suspect the shipping to Canada would kill me though. Do you have a linky to the supplier?
- that UK/Euro spec fender issue is fascinating. I always found the UK-style fore & aft mounting licence plates to be attractive but as I understand it, they were banned many years ago because they pose such a hazard to pedestrians. That may not be correct - but so I’ve been told.
- I loved your remark about Jim..is there anything he isn’t good at? We are so fortunate to be members of such a diverse and talented community from all over the world with people like Jim, Gary, TwoMany, 5Twins, Grizld1, Mailman, Lakeview, GLJ, Machine, Brassneck, Team Junk, YamaDude (another XS650C aficionado), Paul Sutton, Skull and so many others who are willing to share their expertise with the group. I enjoy <nearly> every minute of my interactions with XS650.com.
Anyhow, I have a consulting gig that is calling my name, so I’d better get at it. Please post more photos and perhaps an overall shot of your bike would be good to see.
Cheers,
Pete
Why the difference? Why would Europe demand 360mm and the US 335mm? Silly me, I know the reason, Europe and the US had forks with different bolt hole positions. Yes, that must be it??? Life's a mystery to me sometimes.
Anyway, well done with all the XS work and of course that Engineering Degree.
Anyway, well done with all the XS work and of course that Engineering Degree.
Thanks for all the well wishes.
Yes, the differences are down to the bolt hole patterns, the European models had the front fork lowers from the 73-75 TX/XS 500
Last edited:
Yes. I’ll put a face on the bike, and a better picture of the number plate.May Update
Alrighty then, its been a long time since the last update, we went into lockdown here in Ireland back in March, stranding me 70 miles away from the XS. This wasn’t all bad as I managed to complete my studies and hopefully (results dependant) will be walking away with my BEng in Mechanical Engineering in October, (just have to finish my project over the summer). I think @MaxPete will be proud!
In that time, I’ve been keeping an eye out in the classifieds and managed to purchase a job lot of old parts from the UK which were posted for sale on one of the facebook groups. Those who have been following know that I needed an original master cylinder, and this guy had both that and what looked like an original Euro spec front fender along with some other stuff.
The fender was very rough, but I thought if I could bag the parts for cheap then it would be worth a punt just to satisfy my own curiosity. So, after some “over and back” with the seller, we agreed a price that I thought was quite reasonable.
Fast forward a few weeks and I managed to sneak home once the lockdown was eased slightly here. I head out to the shed to unpack my goodies.
First up and upon first inspection of the fender there was a bit of a surprise. In addition to the two horizontal holes where the front stay mounts, there were also two holes drilled longitudinally on the fender in an asymmetric pattern.
Turning the fender over revealed what appeared to be a washer underneath one of these holes. So, I grabbed a brass brush and cleaned the area to see if I could remove it when I noticed that it wasn’t actually a washer, there were three little spot welds on it and it looked very much like a factory fitted reinforcement on the guard.
This seemed odd especially when compared to the lower hole which looked like it was just drilled straight through.
This piqued my interest, I know that up until August 1975 it was a legal requirement to display a front registration plate in the UK, and there is actually a diagram of this in the Euro parts manuals. However, of all the XS650 groups that I am part of I have never actually seen one that has survived to this day. The only one I ever remember seeing was this one of an XS-2 posted on the UK owners facebook group.
Going back to the parts book seemingly made things even muddier, not only do the drawings depict a U.S type guard (albeit with the proper Euro part numbers) but it also shows the lower most hole drilled in front of the stay rather than behind it where it is drilled on my one.
After thinking about it for a while, I am reasonably convinced that what I have is indeed a 75 UK spec guard and there is an inaccuracy in the drawings. My theory is that there wasn’t a standard size of front registration plate in use, requiring the second hole to be drilled upon fitting. I am obviously open to correction on this but it seems the most likely to me anyway.
After some more digging around I finally found this picture which seems to depict the registration plate mounted behind the stay which seems to agree with my theory and at the very least proves that there were some 75’s that came with a front registration plate fitted.
Mystery seemingly solved, it was time to get the measuring tape out and finally document the differences between the two (measurements are of course approximate)
This is for @650Skull and the other anorak xs650 archivists, I think you will enjoy this post more than the others. Hope it helps someone out in the future.
Front fender U.S part number – 447-21511-00-93
Front fender Euro part number – 533-21511-00-93
Attachments
Very nice - and believe it or not, I had hair like yours when I rode a ‘75 XS650B back when I was a student.
heheheh
heheheh
You were told correctly. Bloody lethal things, and to top it all, you could be fined for not having it in the correct position, where it would do the most harm.
In this picture you can just see the front number plate mounted across and under the headlamp. This must have been after the IOM TT 1974, as I have a Manx transfer on the tank, low bars and rearsets.
In August 73 when I bought the bike the new legislation was in place and dealers had to fit reflective plates, I changed mine to black and silver,
I’m not sure when they decided to ban front plates. I bought a 1976 Honda 400/4 in 77 and that has the holes on the front guard for the plate, though it never had a front plate. I still have the two reinforcing plates with captive nuts that were on the guard.
In August 73 when I bought the bike the new legislation was in place and dealers had to fit reflective plates, I changed mine to black and silver,
I’m not sure when they decided to ban front plates. I bought a 1976 Honda 400/4 in 77 and that has the holes on the front guard for the plate, though it never had a front plate. I still have the two reinforcing plates with captive nuts that were on the guard.
Attachments
May Update
Alrighty then, its been a long time since the last update, we went into lockdown here in Ireland back in March, stranding me 70 miles away from the XS. This wasn’t all bad as I managed to complete my studies and hopefully (results dependant) will be walking away with my BEng in Mechanical Engineering in October, (just have to finish my project over the summer). I think @MaxPete will be proud!
In that time, I’ve been keeping an eye out in the classifieds and managed to purchase a job lot of old parts from the UK which were posted for sale on one of the facebook groups. Those who have been following know that I needed an original master cylinder, and this guy had both that and what looked like an original Euro spec front fender along with some other stuff.
The fender was very rough, but I thought if I could bag the parts for cheap then it would be worth a punt just to satisfy my own curiosity. So, after some “over and back” with the seller, we agreed a price that I thought was quite reasonable.
Fast forward a few weeks and I managed to sneak home once the lockdown was eased slightly here. I head out to the shed to unpack my goodies.
First up and upon first inspection of the fender there was a bit of a surprise. In addition to the two horizontal holes where the front stay mounts, there were also two holes drilled longitudinally on the fender in an asymmetric pattern.
Turning the fender over revealed what appeared to be a washer underneath one of these holes. So, I grabbed a brass brush and cleaned the area to see if I could remove it when I noticed that it wasn’t actually a washer, there were three little spot welds on it and it looked very much like a factory fitted reinforcement on the guard.
This seemed odd especially when compared to the lower hole which looked like it was just drilled straight through.
This piqued my interest, I know that up until August 1975 it was a legal requirement to display a front registration plate in the UK, and there is actually a diagram of this in the Euro parts manuals. However, of all the XS650 groups that I am part of I have never actually seen one that has survived to this day. The only one I ever remember seeing was this one of an XS-2 posted on the UK owners facebook group.
Going back to the parts book seemingly made things even muddier, not only do the drawings depict a U.S type guard (albeit with the proper Euro part numbers) but it also shows the lower most hole drilled in front of the stay rather than behind it where it is drilled on my one.
After thinking about it for a while, I am reasonably convinced that what I have is indeed a 75 UK spec guard and there is an inaccuracy in the drawings. My theory is that there wasn’t a standard size of front registration plate in use, requiring the second hole to be drilled upon fitting. I am obviously open to correction on this but it seems the most likely to me anyway.
After some more digging around I finally found this picture which seems to depict the registration plate mounted behind the stay which seems to agree with my theory and at the very least proves that there were some 75’s that came with a front registration plate fitted.
Mystery seemingly solved, it was time to get the measuring tape out and finally document the differences between the two (measurements are of course approximate)
This is for @650Skull and the other anorak xs650 archivists, I think you will enjoy this post more than the others. Hope it helps someone out in the future.
Front fender U.S part number – 447-21511-00-93
Front fender Euro part number – 533-21511-00-93
Het beano.........getting along quite well. Good score on the 76-79 mufflers, got an after market set a few years ago for a friend who had a 76 and they cost $700 Aus. Didn't think we would find any as they were getting hard to find then. Just by chance when he asked me to look for him, (wasn't computer lit), a NOS set came up on ebay and we went up to $1000 Aus and missed out.
Interesting info on the guard. I knew the stays had to be longer due to the smaller disk brake rotor, causing the caliper to be lower on the legs moving the stay brackets lower. Didn't know about the difference in the actual dimensions of the stay bracket placement where it bolts to the guard.........
On the fork bottoms i'm not convinced they they swapped them from the RD's. Haven't ever seen a euro 74 but on the Euro, (sorry i have included Ireland i the broad scope of Euro), 75B all brochures and from members on here the 75B and 76C seems to have the XS650 forks reversed. This shows up in the Axle bolt having the Castle nut on the left side of the wheel and the clamp brackets on the right.......All other XS650's, (70-83 34mm and 35mm in the US another countries except Europe), have the castle nut on the right and lower fork axle clamp on the left.............Also on the euro 75/76, where the caliper is behind the fork, the brake line bracket is on both side of the fork, rear and front, just as thought Yamaha swapped the forks side to side and added an extra brake line bracket without removing the old one????.
French 75B.................................members 75B from England......Front 75/76 euro fork
76C random Euro brochures and bike...........gauges are the tell for the 76
What would be really interesting is to find out if the Euro 34mm fork internals are different to the rest of the world. Euro models got different and some time upgraded parts, (as did japan), when the US and others didn't.
Any ways when you go dirt riding mud wont get caught under the front guard........
