By the way they've discolored along pretty much their entire length, I'm guessing they're stainless, and they look like a larger diameter than stock as well. With AR inserts at the head, I bet they'd work quite nicely .....
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Somewhat scared and apprehensive
- Thread starter Mickster
- Start date
Mickster
XS650 Enthusiast
OK, here we go, there's no turning back now. Got everything undone except for some motor mounts which will be next and out she comes. Out the left side correct?
I have no idea who makes those exhaust pipes, but with the reducers they seem to work OK. BTW, the reducers were just covered in black soot, lots of it. Is that normal?
Quick question. The frame and carbs are 79, the motor is 81 and has an electronic ignition and a dyna coil (I think). By looking at the pic can you tell if this is the OEM ignition or aftermarket?
Next question. Should I undo the ignition wiring at the ignition module or up at the coils. Is there anything I should watch out for, any quirks. Should I make marks for the timing? Anything.
Other than the alternator wires being rubbed through do you see anything else that is out of whack down at the sprocket?
I have no idea who makes those exhaust pipes, but with the reducers they seem to work OK. BTW, the reducers were just covered in black soot, lots of it. Is that normal?
Quick question. The frame and carbs are 79, the motor is 81 and has an electronic ignition and a dyna coil (I think). By looking at the pic can you tell if this is the OEM ignition or aftermarket?
Next question. Should I undo the ignition wiring at the ignition module or up at the coils. Is there anything I should watch out for, any quirks. Should I make marks for the timing? Anything.
Other than the alternator wires being rubbed through do you see anything else that is out of whack down at the sprocket?
No... motor comes out the right side. Suppose you could try the left, but it's much easier from the right.
Aftermarket. Pamco... which is no longer made.
You're missing the clamp that holds the wiring harness in place, which explains the rubbing.
My experience: Engine will come out the right side but the top needs to be tilted towards the left slightly. The last mount bolt out was that long one at the bottom. It basically passes just behind the engines centre of balance and hence the engine can easily tip forward. I found it helped to tape cardboard around the front of the frame to stop the exhaust studs scratching the paint. When all the engine mounts are out the engine sits cradled in the frame but can tip forwards and scratch the frame. I had a crude wood platform on the right of the bike at the level of the frame to rest the engine on when lifting out and in. When returning the engine I put that long bolt back in first and then all other mounts lined up nicely.
I wore leather gloves to protect my hands. A good position to hold the engine was left hand under the alternator and right hand under the kick start spline. To protect my back I put down some old blankets in the tanks place and sat over the battery position with my chest flat on the blankets when I lift the engine either in or out. This way my back does zero work. But there and many ways to skin a cat.
I wore leather gloves to protect my hands. A good position to hold the engine was left hand under the alternator and right hand under the kick start spline. To protect my back I put down some old blankets in the tanks place and sat over the battery position with my chest flat on the blankets when I lift the engine either in or out. This way my back does zero work. But there and many ways to skin a cat.
Mickster
XS650 Enthusiast
Thanks for the help on the clip. Is mine broken off and cannot be replaced or just missing.
Paul, thanks for the info on taking the motor out. My Clymer says left side, but I know the guru's here know better. Also the Clymer stuff about cam/chain stuff is really confusing.
I'll stick to this forum.
Paul, thanks for the info on taking the motor out. My Clymer says left side, but I know the guru's here know better. Also the Clymer stuff about cam/chain stuff is really confusing.
I'll stick to this forum.
The chain looks bone dry It is rare to see rust on them where I live
and if I understand it been on the road 600 miles
It also has the " Old school " Master link that is regarded as risky and not used much.
here. Or at all .. Inspect --Though the sprocket appears OK on the picture.
Depending on chain Quality . No lubrication can shorten life and make it a candidate for replacement
There is Oil on the wall behind the sprocket .That then not comes from lubricating of the chain
Perhaps a leaking seal. Is it the clutch rod there don't remember exactly.
But if not to much I would wait ,, Since the bike been sitting .Things can change
After more miles.
And not more difficult to change when in the frame.
It is a question of personal preference.
Some change all seals on that side In this case
Some don't change any of them , now
Sprocket can be difficult getting off .if no chain. Is there.
Inspection. Often it can be difficult to see where oil comes from.
But a proper cleaning now makes it simpler find the leak later
Forgot to mention it is not working with the pipe in the wheel at all with spoked wheel as in this case
Better when it is casted wheel looks like that
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1163521
and if I understand it been on the road 600 miles
It also has the " Old school " Master link that is regarded as risky and not used much.
here. Or at all .. Inspect --Though the sprocket appears OK on the picture.
Depending on chain Quality . No lubrication can shorten life and make it a candidate for replacement
There is Oil on the wall behind the sprocket .That then not comes from lubricating of the chain
Perhaps a leaking seal. Is it the clutch rod there don't remember exactly.
But if not to much I would wait ,, Since the bike been sitting .Things can change
After more miles.
And not more difficult to change when in the frame.
It is a question of personal preference.
Some change all seals on that side In this case
Some don't change any of them , now
Sprocket can be difficult getting off .if no chain. Is there.
Inspection. Often it can be difficult to see where oil comes from.
But a proper cleaning now makes it simpler find the leak later
Forgot to mention it is not working with the pipe in the wheel at all with spoked wheel as in this case
Better when it is casted wheel looks like that
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1163521
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The first time I pulled an engine out, I had a scissors jack & block of wood under it to take the weight before removing the long lower engine bolt. Then I raised the engine slightly with the jack till it was free of all mounting lugs. Then it came out (more easily than I anticipated) to the right. It's - heavy - but I was able to turn and put it down safely.
Good point from Paul about need to wrap the frame to protect from damage, especially those exhaust studs.
Since then, have done it again using a block & chain hanging from garage rafters. Now, my willing assistant takes the weight using the chain, I pull the long lower bolt out and guide the engine out to the right while she lifts. Mechanical advantage given by the block means lifting is very easy.
The chain is attached by a judo belt passed under the motor lengthwise, brought up between the front and rear engine mounting lugs and tied over the cylinder head. Anything strong enough would make a suitable sling.
Good point from Paul about need to wrap the frame to protect from damage, especially those exhaust studs.
Since then, have done it again using a block & chain hanging from garage rafters. Now, my willing assistant takes the weight using the chain, I pull the long lower bolt out and guide the engine out to the right while she lifts. Mechanical advantage given by the block means lifting is very easy.
The chain is attached by a judo belt passed under the motor lengthwise, brought up between the front and rear engine mounting lugs and tied over the cylinder head. Anything strong enough would make a suitable sling.
Jan_P, the chain is dry and that will explain the light surface rust which is common when a bike is left in storage for a while. I would just apply more oil to the chain at regular intervals. The sprocket is in good condition. I am not sure what you mean by the old school link but I have always used that type currently fitted. The safety issue is that the clip should point in the direction of chain rotation which is how it is fitted on yours.
Oil leaks: A good clean down will be helpful. Often the large nut on the sprocket will be loose and this is suggested by the radial oil/rust marks on you sprocket. This nut needs to be tight to seal properly and this is best done with the chain on so you can apply the back brake while tightening the nut. There are two routes for oil to leak from around the sprocket shaft. The oil seal addresses one route and tightening the nut addresses the other. The other main source of an oil leak is the seal around the clutch push rod. This seal is best replaced with the chain and sprocket removed. Where the seal fits into the casing there is a very sharp outer edge. I lot of people deburr this edge which then makes it easier to insert the new seal without accidentally cutting it. Take a photo of the old seal before removing it so you can see how far the new one should be pushed in. If you try to force it in too far you will damage it.
I suggest you clean the casing, remove the chain and sprocket, replace the push rod seal and then refit the sprocket and chain. This can all be done with the engine in the frame. I would not replace the seal behind the sprocket at this stage because it is probably still good, but if not it is easily replaced later with engine in the frame.
I am not sure what to do about that missing clip that holds the wiring away from the chain??
Oil leaks: A good clean down will be helpful. Often the large nut on the sprocket will be loose and this is suggested by the radial oil/rust marks on you sprocket. This nut needs to be tight to seal properly and this is best done with the chain on so you can apply the back brake while tightening the nut. There are two routes for oil to leak from around the sprocket shaft. The oil seal addresses one route and tightening the nut addresses the other. The other main source of an oil leak is the seal around the clutch push rod. This seal is best replaced with the chain and sprocket removed. Where the seal fits into the casing there is a very sharp outer edge. I lot of people deburr this edge which then makes it easier to insert the new seal without accidentally cutting it. Take a photo of the old seal before removing it so you can see how far the new one should be pushed in. If you try to force it in too far you will damage it.
I suggest you clean the casing, remove the chain and sprocket, replace the push rod seal and then refit the sprocket and chain. This can all be done with the engine in the frame. I would not replace the seal behind the sprocket at this stage because it is probably still good, but if not it is easily replaced later with engine in the frame.
I am not sure what to do about that missing clip that holds the wiring away from the chain??
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Thank you interesting.
I buy chains from a parts store that sell chains to a lot of different motorcycles. The " Sportsbikes " use a riveted chain link and before that a lock that was tightened with spanners. Was used -- O rings are used in chains I suppose it is well known
They let you loan a riveting tool to do the job. Leaving a Collateral.
I have not seen a chain for sale for a while with that type of link. As here but honestly not looked after one.
I personally had one such link that broke.
I suppose the engine is not so powerful for XS650 . But I seldom need to split he chain
And with lubricating they last long
When i tighten ( Or loosening ) the nut I have a piece of a pipe I stick in the back wheel.
Going against the Swing locking the rotation :Might not be perfect but that's how I do it.
That one needs rather much torque. I use a Pipe extension on the tool.
I see the sense in using a riveted chain link considering the damage a broken chain can do, especially in high performance situations.
Have fun and enjoy the bike.
Have fun and enjoy the bike.
That wiring clip is sort of peened onto the engine case. It's pretty common to find them missing. I'm not sure you could re-attach a new one and I'm not sure where you would get one anyway. You may have to fashion a bolt-on alternative.
Mickster
XS650 Enthusiast
Yep, took out all the mounting bolts with a bottle jack underneath for support, top to the left, bottom to the right, and the motor came out the right side no problem.
I thought I could remove the Pamco by removing the two screws on the plate and the center nut. That was a no go. I think all I did was screw the timing up. How do I get it off?
Regarding the alternator wire missing clip, what's the common fix? Can I just drill and tap and screw in a clip?
Thanks you guys for all the good info, the project is moving along.
I thought I could remove the Pamco by removing the two screws on the plate and the center nut. That was a no go. I think all I did was screw the timing up. How do I get it off?
Regarding the alternator wire missing clip, what's the common fix? Can I just drill and tap and screw in a clip?
Thanks you guys for all the good info, the project is moving along.
Regarding that missing clip, GLJ posted an unrelated thread recently:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/shift-shaft-chain-guard.57631/#post-656149
If you look through the Entry #1 photos you will see how he addressed the missing clip problem with a P-Clip secured to a starter bolt. Perhaps this is an idea you could work with?
http://www.xs650.com/threads/shift-shaft-chain-guard.57631/#post-656149
If you look through the Entry #1 photos you will see how he addressed the missing clip problem with a P-Clip secured to a starter bolt. Perhaps this is an idea you could work with?
To get the Pamco timing plate off, you'll have to pull the Pamco rotor off the end of the advance rod. But, it would probably be easier to remove the little disc on the advance end of the rod then pull the rod w/ the Pamco rotor still attached out the left side. Normally, before I remove a timing plate, whether it be a points one or a Pamco, I scratch some alignment marks between it and the housing. That way I can re-install it relatively close (and still in time) to where it was .....
Another alternative for the missing wire clip would be to fab one up and attach it either to the shift shaft guard .....
..... or face the horizontal leg in and mount it to that engine stud, just like the shift shaft guard mounts.
..... or face the horizontal leg in and mount it to that engine stud, just like the shift shaft guard mounts.
Mickster
XS650 Enthusiast
Gentlemen, it's moving along better than I expected. With the first time of getting into one of these overhead cam motors, the stress level has gone way down.
Some text now and pics at the tail end of this post.
First off, I apologize for my bothering you guys with the Pamco thing. I couldn't get it off, didn't want to break anything. I read the Pamco Installation procedure 2 times forward and 3 times backwards. The problem with getting it apart was the PO was very liberal with the Locktite and glued everything shut. I finally resorted to using a puller from my drawer of almost never to use tools. Pic 1. That got it off nicely.
Got the top cover off and notice there is no gasket or sealant. Is that how it should be?
The top cover has a thick coating of black coating on the inside. Don't know why that is. Is it OEM?
The tappets look good as does the camshaft. Timing chain looks good, nice and tight.
It looks like this motor has been gotten into before, so next is yank the head and cylinders (got the cam out) and see what size the pistons are.
Some text now and pics at the tail end of this post.
First off, I apologize for my bothering you guys with the Pamco thing. I couldn't get it off, didn't want to break anything. I read the Pamco Installation procedure 2 times forward and 3 times backwards. The problem with getting it apart was the PO was very liberal with the Locktite and glued everything shut. I finally resorted to using a puller from my drawer of almost never to use tools. Pic 1. That got it off nicely.
Got the top cover off and notice there is no gasket or sealant. Is that how it should be?
The top cover has a thick coating of black coating on the inside. Don't know why that is. Is it OEM?
The tappets look good as does the camshaft. Timing chain looks good, nice and tight.
It looks like this motor has been gotten into before, so next is yank the head and cylinders (got the cam out) and see what size the pistons are.
Mickster
XS650 Enthusiast
Naw, it's a camera reflection of the shiny part of the blue spectrum of the rainbow effect of the way the camera sees it.
To the naked eye, the cam looks perfect.
Fuzzy pic of the same lobe.
To the naked eye, the cam looks perfect.
Fuzzy pic of the same lobe.
