First time rider with 83 XS650

Yeah, it was converted to a hydraulic clutch. So adjusting the clutch screw might not resolve the issue?
Looks as though the slave piston is connected to the worm actuator... so yes, adjusting the screw might still fix it. Replace the fluid (since you mentioned it's milky) and once you have a firm lever, adjust the screw in until you feel contact to the pushrod, then back it off just a hair. I'm guessin' it will help.
 
Hi again
By your response I assume that there are the mentioned lock nut and JIS ( Phillips Screw )
And adjustments make a difference.
Is a little more clockwise adjustment possible ?
But it can be something not known on the inside
I would go for it . Counting hos much say a halt circle .To begi with and then another half circle
If you keep a record of how much --- you can turn it back again. The same amount.
If nothing happens.
Are there a reservoir for the clutch and enough fluid. ?
The red thing on top with an Allen head may well be an adjuster I have never seen it. I dont know
I think it was mentioned that it can be a bit tricky to find neutral especially hot days.
I have that to.
View attachment 172958
Neutral light. Switch
Behind the cylinders on top of the block it usually sits please look at the enclosed picture
If it is there it is a one wire series circuit to make a lamp I believe
Not sure if it differs on various models. ( So a little careful is best )
That Switch Closes the circuit with the lamp to ground when the neutral is in.
A fuse + a lamp holder with lamp --to the top of the Switch a small Phillips head I believe is what is needed.
The wiring loom has that wire as stock if I remember correctly it sits on the alternator stator wire.
I might still be there.
I'll work on adjusting the lock nut/JIS to resolve the clutch issue and keep note of my adjustments.

I'll check the reservoir again. When I opened it up a week ago it looked full but I didn't like the look of the DOT fluid.
https://www.hughshandbuilt.com/2012/03/14/xs650-hydraulic-clutch-conversion-install-instructions/
I found this instructional for an aftermarket hydraulic clutch conversation kit. It looks like the same unit and goes over installing and bleeding the system. I just haven't tried it yet.

I'll look for the neutral light switch so I know where it is, but not having the light isn't a big deal.
 
Looks as though the slave piston is connected to the worm actuator... so yes, adjusting the screw might still fix it. Replace the fluid (since you mentioned it's milky) and once you have a firm lever, adjust the screw in until you feel contact to the pushrod, then back it off just a hair. I'm guessin' it will help.
Thank you. I'll get to working on this and see if I can get this resolved.
 
Took this pic from the HHB link you put up. Something they didn't explain in their instructions. You need to get that slave down to the point the worm actuator is greater than 90° when the lever is relaxed. The closer you get to the lines I drew, the better your action (travel) will be.

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Took this pic from the HHB link you put up. Something they didn't explain in their instructions. You need to get that slave down to the point the worm actuator is greater than 90° when the lever is relaxed. The closer you get to the lines I drew, the better your action (travel) will be.

View attachment 172961
Should I be trying to get the bolt circled in yellow between the two points you drew?
4BD4C55A-336F-4A02-918A-D1FB419F5F8D.jpeg
 
Should I be trying to get the bolt circled in yellow between the two points you drew?
Geometry. ;) The point of greatest travel is at exactly 90°. So you want it to rest at the bottom line...> 90°.... go through the 90° point and stop at the < 90° point (top line). That will get you the most rotational travel possible which will give you the most in and out movement of the pushrod.

Edit: The above should read...."That will get you the most rotational travel possible with the least amount of lever effort... which will give you the most in and out movement of the pushrod."
 
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Being hydraulic, I don't think lever effort is an issue. That's the whole point of going hydraulic (easy lever pull). But, as Jim has pointed out, You'll need to get the range of motion on the worm arm correct for best clutch action.
 
Going back to your question about changing the oil - yes, it would be a good idea to do this at an early opportunity. Drain the oil when its warm. Take the opportunity to remove the sump plate and the round r/h side cover - you can now inspect both oil filters. Loads of stuff on this forum about the oil filter/strainer in the sump, which often tears. Then you can think about repairing or replacing as required.
 
The previous owner converted the mechanical clutch cable to hydraulic.

Yeah, it was converted to a hydraulic clutch. So adjusting the clutch screw might not resolve the issue?

AH HAH - it would have been helpful if we had known this little detail before spending the time typing in all the danged details on adjusting the stock clutch mechanism Keefus.

OK - so as the others have said:
  • the fluid needs to be clean and not aerated (no bubbles), and;
  • the clutch actuator needs to be "clocked" properly to provide the most axial stroke to the pushrod.
I suspect that either your master cylinder (up on the bars) is under-sized and is not providing a sufficient volume of oil to the slave to put it through its full stroke - and/or - the slave cylinder is over-sized - and/or - there is air in the hydraulic system which results in lost motion that causes a reduced axial stroke on the pushrod and incomplete disengagement.

Anyhow, the first step is to clean out the old fluid and install fresh and then bleed it carefully - and then adjust the clutch adjuster screw on the engine case to ensure that it is providing the maximum stroke with no lost motion.

QUESTION: is there an adjustment screw on the master cylinder lever? If so - be sure that the lever is moving the piston in the master as far as possible.

May I gently suggest that in future, you detail any other modifications to the bike before asking questions so that we do not waste time suggesting help that is incorrect or irrelevant.

Pete
 
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QUOTE="MaxPete, post: 657005, member: 24466"]AH HAH - it would have been helpful if we had known this little detail before spending the time typing in all the danged details on adjusting the stock clutch mechanism Keefus.

OK - so as the others have said:
  • the fluid needs to be clean and not aerated (no bubbles), and;
  • the clutch actuator needs to be "clocked" properly to provide the most axial stroke to the pushrod.
I suspect that either your master cylinder (up on the bars) is under-sized and is not providing a sufficient volume of oil to the slave to put it through its full stroke - and/or - the slave cylinder is over-sized - and/or - there is air in the hydraulic system which results in lost motion that causes a reduced axial stroke on the pushrod and incomplete disengagement.

Anyhow, the first step is to clean out the old fluid and install fresh and then bleed it carefully - and then adjust the clutch adjuster screw on the engine case to ensure that it is providing the maximum stroke with no lost motion.

QUESTION: is there an adjustment screw on the master cylinder lever? If so - be sure that the lever is moving the piston in the master as far as possible.

May I gently suggest that in future, you detail any other modifications to the bike before asking questions so that we do not waste time suggesting help that is incorrect or irrelevant.

Pete[/QUOTE]
Will do, Pete. My apologies.

There's a bolt to adjust the pitch of the lever, not sure if that's what you're referring to. If I bring the lever in any closer it hits the grip and won't engage the clutch.

IMG_2175.jpg


Being hydraulic, I don't think lever effort is an issue. That's the whole point of going hydraulic (easy lever pull). But, as Jim has pointed out, You'll need to get the range of motion on the worm arm correct for best clutch action.
My forearm was killing me the other day from pulling this lever. Might have been because I had to keep it compressed for so long while trying to shift gears.
 
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Would just need a perch, lever and cable. As long as the cover isn’t modified where the cable goes thru that should be it. Worm looks complete but cant see if the ball bearing is present inside. Maybe thats why he is having a hard time shifting, is there a ball bearing inside the work gear assembly where the blue line is pointing to in your pic above?
 
Would just need a perch, lever and cable. As long as the cover isn’t modified where the cable goes thru that should be it. Worm looks complete but cant see if the ball bearing is present inside. Maybe thats why he is having a hard time shifting, is there a ball bearing inside the work gear assembly where the blue line is pointing to in your pic above?
Hey Superjet,

That’s an image Jim pulled from a website I provided that covers installing and bleeding the after market hydraulic clutch. I’m pretty sure to install the hydraulic clutch a hole has to be made through the cover, based on the website tutorial: https://www.hughshandbuilt.com/2012/03/14/xs650-hydraulic-clutch-conversion-install-instructions/
 
Hey Superjet,

That’s an image Jim pulled from a website I provided that covers installing and bleeding the after market hydraulic clutch. I’m pretty sure to install the hydraulic clutch a hole has to be made through the cover, based on the website tutorial: https://www.hughshandbuilt.com/2012/03/14/xs650-hydraulic-clutch-conversion-install-instructions/
The hole is existing. Without going back through that link... I believe the only change made was threading that hole. And that's not a stopper. Going back to a stock cable setup should be easily doable.
 
Hey everyone. I wanted to give an update and thank you all for your help and input.

After messing with this for a few weeks in my off time my buddy stopped by to lend some help. He convinced me to bring the bike to his friends shop, someone who has a lot of experience with 650s.

They found the clutch had been assembled wrong, with discs missing or facing the wrong direction, which destroyed bearing #6 in the image below. Also, the worm actuator that pushes the rod for the clutch on the left side was wrong and had broken. The shop rebuilt the clutch, replaced the actuator, and converted back to a cable clutch lever.

Been told the bike rips and shifts smoothly now. They don’t believe the transmission got too damaged from the improper care. I’ll be picking it up today.

Thanks again for everyone’s input.

AA2A8F1F-70D5-470E-B3A9-3DD33EB879D6.png
936964FE-7A2E-4594-B2C8-0E1CE1FBBE7F.jpeg
 
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