Steering head

David Toll

Reliving my youth?
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Hello folks,
Have rebuilt the steering system with All Balls bearings. Tapped the side of the neck to fit a grease nipple. Notched the bottom race seat to allow for easier removal of the bottom race. Tightened the two adjusting nuts down - bottom one firm and then 1/4 turn back, top one down tight. I seem to have a fair gap at the centre of the top triple tree, (see photo). Have I done something wrong or is this OK? Should I tighten the bottom adjusting nut down further to bring the top of the triple tree closer the top of the steering stem. All the races were seated correctly although the new top bearing race seems to sit a little higher in the neck. Suggestions?
 

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The top triple will sit "a bit" higher, 1/8"? with the All Balls kit, yes the top race sits proud. If using the stock headlight ears an extra rubber gasket or o-ring helps keep them snug. Did you make/use a race driver to fully and evenly seat the races? Done a few of these and made a race driver with an old race welded to the end of a section of (about) 1 1/2" pipe and a heavy cap welded on the other end so I can hammer the races home without damage. It takes a bit, I listen for the "ring" to change tone when it finally seats then continue hitting all around the cap one more time. Since I got serious about seating the races I don't have to go back and reset the bearing play after a 100 miles or so.
 
Used the pipe and old race technique described by Mailman when he did his bearings. Just took it to pieces and the races (top & bottom) appear to be in hard against the stop in the stem. Have a couple of photos showing where the top bearing is seated (complete with top grease seal). Seems high to me. Didn't separate the races until I checked the bearings on the stem. The race that went with the bearing that slid all the way down the steering stem was put in the bottom. I must admit that in seemed quite loose in the stem but stayed in place when tapped in fully. The other bearing and matching race were put in the top. I can pull it to pieces entirely, remove the races and swap them but I thought I was being extra careful with this the first time after all the warnings in the threads on this job.
 

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You can leave the top grease seal out if you like, it really doesn't do much. That may gain you a little. You can't mix the bearings up, the hole through the center won't allow it. The hole through the top one is much smaller and it wouldn't go down the stem to it's bottom. You could mix up the outer races though. Here's a chart from Goran's site giving all the pertinent bearing dimensions .....

bBRFxPp.jpg


I've installed several sets of these, a couple from Mike's and a couple AllBalls sets. I never had any issues, never had to add extra rubber rings to the headlight ears. It seems some people encounter this issue but I never have.
 
I can pull it to pieces entirely, remove the races and swap them
You should be able to measure them in place. As 5t's chart shows, the taller of the two races (column C) should go on the top. And yeah, leave the seal off the top. Nothing there for it to seal against anyway... you should have a metal dust cover. that works just fine.

MVIMG_20180108_135752.jpg


I've installed several sets of these, a couple from Mike's and a couple AllBalls sets. I never had any issues, never had to add extra rubber rings to the headlight ears. It seems some people encounter this issue but I never have.
Same here. Thought I was gonna need the extra rubbers on the SG, but everything fit nice and snug.
 
Couldn't measure the races in place, (eyes aren't what they used to be) so I pulled everything to pieces. Thank God for the advice to notch the stem. Checked the numbers stamped on the races and they match the bearings they are coupled with. The bearing on the bottom of the stem is the only one that will slide on there so the matching race must be in the correct place. Measured the difference between the top of the stem and the top of the triple tree (shown in pic 2/post #1) and it appears to be about 3.5 mm - around about Gary's 1/8". Maybe I am creating my own issues. Or........ Maybe I haven't driven the bottom bearing down far enough on the stem? It looks like it's down but I will tap it on again. Maybe the top grease seal is taking up too much space? But then, why would they supply it if it screws up the job? I will remove it. Maybe aliens have interfered with my steering stem and taken a section for analysis making it shorter. It all looked so pretty and worked perfectly until I tried to put the top tree on. Will reassemble and make sure everything is in right. Do I tighten the bottom adjuster nut up tight and then back it off a quarter or so?
 
I set the bearing tension with the forks assembled and by watching how quickly the forks flop over side to side from the straight ahead position. When you nudge the bars to either side from straight ahead, you want the forks to fall over slowly and gently, not really fast and slam hard into the stops. It may take a couple tries to get it just right because often when you torque down the large nut on top of the tree, it makes your setting a little tighter. That means you'll have to loosen the top nut, loosen your setting a little, re-torque the top nut, and see if it's good now. I think I re-set the ones I recently installed on my '83 three times before I was happy with them.
 
Look, I think so. Steering works smoothly and is light to direct. I left the top grease seal off as advised. I did have a bit of a "clunk" over bumps but I tightened it down a little and it all seems fine. Have put 500 miles on the old girl and she steers well. I did fit the neck grease nipple and pumped in a lot of marine grade grease. I am currently awaiting new fork tubes from the States but I am pretty happy with the steering job - it falls over to the side smoothly from centre and there is no feel of "binding". Trouble is, this is the only XS I have ever seen and I have nothing to compare it to. Fortunately, the advice here is clear and straightforward.
 
I think the amount of tension you put on the bearings is about the same for any bike. Obviously, the way you adjust them varies from bike to bike. If you set them too tight, you might experience the front end "hunting", gently weaving back and forth as you go straight down the road in about the 25 to 35 MPH range. After I initially set them, which as I mentioned, sometimes takes a couple trys to get right, I like to check them again in a few hundred miles to see if they've possibly settled in and loosened up a bit. Sometimes you don't get the bearings and races 100% seated but a few hundred miles of bouncing down the road will finish the job for you.
 
Dehydration causes fatigue, dizziness, headache, vision distortion, nausea, muscle cramp and diahorrea. Australia is one of the world's most arid environments. From an early age, we Aussies are expected to keep ourselves well primed with fluids and remember, potable water is not always available whereas the distance to the closest pub is rarely more than a few hundred metres. The sensible Australian is prone to an unjustified "big drinker" label when, indeed, he is only maintaining a healthy constitution in preparation for an anticipated "dry" spell. That's my position.
Incidentally, the Czech Republic regularly outdrink us per capita. Drunken bastards! There's a challenge most Oz would be happy to take up when "skolling a schooner" becomes an Olympic event.
 
Dehydration causes fatigue, dizziness, headache, vision distortion, nausea, muscle cramp and diahorrea. Australia is one of the world's most arid environments. From an early age, we Aussies are expected to keep ourselves well primed with fluids and remember, potable water is not always available whereas the distance to the closest pub is rarely more than a few hundred metres. The sensible Australian is prone to an unjustified "big drinker" label when, indeed, he is only maintaining a healthy constitution in preparation for an anticipated "dry" spell. That's my position.
Incidentally, the Czech Republic regularly outdrink us per capita. Drunken bastards! There's a challenge most Oz would be happy to take up when "skolling a schooner" becomes an Olympic event.
:laughing:
 
Look, I think so. Steering works smoothly and is light to direct. I left the top grease seal off as advised. I did have a bit of a "clunk" over bumps but I tightened it down a little and it all seems fine. Have put 500 miles on the old girl and she steers well. I did fit the neck grease nipple and pumped in a lot of marine grade grease. I am currently awaiting new fork tubes from the States but I am pretty happy with the steering job - it falls over to the side smoothly from centre and there is no feel of "binding". Trouble is, this is the only XS I have ever seen and I have nothing to compare it to. Fortunately, the advice here is clear and straightforward.
I think I recall the clunk you had from one of the videos you posted earlier this year. Do you recall how much you needed to tighten it to eliminate the noise. I still hear that on mine on occasion and tightened the bearings but am afraid I’ll tighten them too much. May be a project for the winter to completely disassemble the front end and check the bearings out although they were just installed when I bought the bike.
 
Hello bosco,
I know I only tightened them up enough to allow the steering to fall off gradually. I possibly erred a bit on the "loose" side - the bottom adjuster didn't move much. I intend to look at it again when I get my new forks. Not much help I know.
 
Hello bosco,
I know I only tightened them up enough to allow the steering to fall off gradually. I possibly erred a bit on the "loose" side - the bottom adjuster didn't move much. I intend to look at it again when I get my new forks. Not much help I know.

Best to err on the side of too loose than too tight. You can always tighten them up a bit, but you can't get the damage out when they're over-tightened.
 
Tightened the two adjusting nuts down - bottom one firm and then 1/4 turn back,
I know that 5Twins has given his way of adjusting the play in the steering, and I agree 100%. You mentioned the 1/4 turn back off. Well that 1/4 turn back off rule is for wheel bearings that are subject to excess heat from a brake drum or disk or in the case of trailers where the tires can get very hot and transfer the heat to the bearings. As 5T instructs, no play is needed for the steering head, since heat and expansion is not an issue.
With the advent of better grease and cooler disks, the play can sometimes be reduced to an 1/8 of a turn or less. Just an FYI. Carry on, David! Enjoy your summer and ride carefully!
 
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