Turn signal relay...

katmol

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OK, I've read most of the post on this but I'm still having issues. Stock 1975 XS650, bought it a couple of weeks ago blinkers worked fine. After putting a couple hundered miles on the bike they started to blink erratically when riding. They do fine when stopped. Just when I turn them on while moving they act up. As I slow to a stop they start to work fine. I bought a new relay from MikesXS but it doesn't work at all. The stock relay is a 57 watt and the MikesXS is a 27 watt. I guess that's why. I bought a cheap 552 at AutZone and it doesn't work. Put the old back in and it works. but as described above. Any ideas?

Thanks
 
Do you have stock turn signals with stock size bulbs? The 552 should work if you are plugging it into the brown and brown/white wires.
 
the stock relay (tin can) can be disassembled to clean the internal contacts including the ground to the can body, just carefully uncrimp the end and pull the relay out clean and inspect the points inside clean with electrical cleaner and maybe a points hone if contacts are pitted
 
On the 75 the 552 will work fine with most incandescent bulbs, not so well with LED's. In the flasher socket you have three wires. Ignore the black one, that's a ground. You will find a brown and a brown/white. The brown is power TO the flasher, The brown/white is power OUT to the turn switch.
Plug the 552 flasher into the brown and brown/white wires.
On the erratic flashing I would suspect weak grounding.
At low speeds the bike doesn't vibrate much, as the speed increases the vibes increase. This tends to rattle the bulbs in the sockets, the head of the light on the stem or on the wires.
I doubt it's a charging issue. If it was it would be worse at low speeds and better at high speed. The faster the engine rpms the more charge you get.
Leo
 
Had the same problem with my '75. Turned out to be an internal ground problem in the relay itself. Other than buy a new relay I clamped a wire to the can and ran it to ground. Problem solved.

By the way. If the relay is buzzing while trying to work DO NOT touch it. It will make you run in place and nearly pee your pants. Personal experience.
 
Had the same problem with my '75. Turned out to be an internal ground problem in the relay itself. Other than buy a new relay I clamped a wire to the can and ran it to ground. Problem solved.

By the way. If the relay is buzzing while trying to work DO NOT touch it. It will make you run in place and nearly pee your pants. Personal experience.

As I said...
the stock relay (tin can) can be disassembled to clean the internal contacts including the ground to the can body, just carefully uncrimp the end and pull the relay out clean and inspect the points inside clean with electrical cleaner and maybe a points hone if contacts are pitted
 
Did You check the turn signal cancelling relay.
I just removed it and eliminated the wiring associated with it. I guess we will see if it works without. Will more than likely eventually eliminate the signals altogether, but thought I would leave the wires for the signals, mayby miniature lights, at a later date.
 
The voltage at 3k rpm should be at 14 or above. Like 14.2 to 14.5 volts. Your charging system has issues.
I doubt that's all the problem with your turns but it could have an effect.
Leo
 
I found this thread while searching as I am having the exact same problem as the one that started it all: works fine with engine off or with engine idling, erratic at speed. I'm going to chase the ground issue first, as I found the black lead from the turn signal relay is NOT grounded. Three-lead turnsignal relays are set up so there is a high capacity output for the incandescent lamps (47-57 watts) and a low cap output for the dashboard indicator lamp (12 - 13 watts). The label on the stock turnsignal relay even indicates such ("47 watts + 13.5"). It kind of doesn't make sense to me to run an output straight to ground but there we are. I checked to be sure it's a ground and it is ......sorta. It reads a steady 0.3 ohms to chassis ground. If I check the black lead for the turnsignal cancel box, it bounces back and forth between 0.1 and 0 ohms (the limits of my meter, probably 0.05 ohms), as does every other ground I checked. That tells me that either the wiring diagram is lying to me and the black lead is indeed going to the indicator bulb, or, I have a shitty connection. For now I'll go with the shitty connection. If anone has any other ideas, I'd love to hear them.
 
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I've managed to solve most of my blinker problems with an adjustable relay. Solved slow blinker, no blinker and blinker feedback. I've used these on several bikes and it really helps led bulb replacement problems.
 
OK, race fans. I am stumped. Here's the deal: Every wiring diagram I can find on the XS650E, including my Clymer manual, says the turn signal flasher is connected to a Yellow/Green (Y/G) wire, a Brown/White (Br/W) and a Black (B) wire. The diagrams all say the black wire goes to the wire harness ground, the Br/W wire goes to the turn signal switch on the left handle bar, and the Y/G wire goes to the turn signal cancel thingie. I therefore assume the power for the turn signals comes from the cancel thingie, and when it has detected X amount of pulses from the speedo reed switch, it yanks the connection.

With me so far? Anyone disagree?

However, on my stock 1978 XS650E, there is no Black wire connected to the flasher. Instead, it is Brown (Br). If I disconnect the entire cancel thingie, the turn signals STILL WORK. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?

If I disconnect the flasher, and turn on the ignition, the Br wire (which before was assumed to be ground) becomes hot, reading around 12 volts. There is no voltage at the Y/G wire nor the Br/W wire.

I checked wring diagrams of other years to see if I maybe had an off-year wiring harness, and they all agree that one of the terminals of the flasher is connected to a Black wire running to ground.

BTW, I found this investigating my intermittent turnsignal operation at high RPM. I found that the plastic insulation cover of the relay had been worn through and was rubbing against the frame. It actually rubbed a gash in the metal "can." When I had the flasher demounted but connected and it was touching the engine head, when I operated the turn signals all it did was buzz. So, I think I found my initial problem. However, I would really like to get to the bottom of the discrepancy between my bike and the Rest Of The World. In another BTW, I have had several issues with Real Strangeness with this bike. I ordered the PMA replacement kit from Mike's and the directions for mounting the rectifier/regulator look nothing like my 78 XS-E. Also, I ordered a passenger grab rail, supposedly able to fit all XS650 years, but it doesn't fit mine as there is a factory-mounted grab handle (for center stand deployment) welded to the frame and in the way of the nifty chrome grab rail. The guys at Mike's must think I am smoking dope as they have never heard of either case. I would be suspicious of the bike, but this is the second 78 XS-E I have owned and it all looks familiar to me.

Any help is appreciated.
 
The guys at Mike's must think I am smoking dope as they have never heard of either case. I would be suspicious of the bike, but this is the second 78 XS-E I have owned and it all looks familiar to m
:pimp: Mikes ? Jokers
Definitely! An XS650E does ofcourse have that grab handle.
20200619_140706.jpg
Sure wish I was at home to assist in your turn signal wiring.
 
Thanks, gggGary. The circuit diagram agrees with what I am seeing on my bike. Why all the manuals are different, beats the hell out of me. I used to have a Real Yamaha Shop Manual which probably explains why I didn't run into this before. OK, now I know where the wires go to and what's expected, but....How does it work? What is the relationship between the flasher and the cancelling unit via the Y/G wire? The third terminal is for a lower wattage line (i.e. dashboard indicator). What can be done to this output that causes the flasher to stop?

Maybe I'll never know.

Oh, and Thanks, Machine, for backing me up on the grab handle.
 
The handlebar switch has two sets of contacts, one set directs +12 from the flasher to the turn signal bulbs on one side. The other set provides a ground to the canceling unit, that ground is sent to the flasher relay via the YG, signaling starts. The canceler now looks to the speedometer counter and an internal timer to start a countdown. When the conditions are met (this is a bit mysterious, but it's a combination of time and distance) it interrupts the ground on the YG and canceling stops. In theory; if the canceler dies, ground is continuous until pushing the turn signal switch in breaks the circuit at the switch.
In spite of "common wisdom" often repeated here I have found the system to be quite reliable. Over years with dozens of Yamahas using this system I have only replaced one non operative canceling unit.
I tend to make a game of deciding when to activate the turn signal so that it auto cancels JUST after making the turn. Yeah I'm that nerd guy. Aside from wiring, bulbs, and connectors in neglected condition, the most common turn signal issue I see is a cold solder blob in the handle bar switch falling off. It's normally a simple job to resolder the blob and be back in action.
 
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