Yes, I know. I wasn't clear. My comment was meant to be directed at the poster as well. All is well that ends well.
-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
An Adventure in Firsts: '83 XS650 Heritage Special Build/Rebuild
- Thread starter MarieKaramazov
- Start date
Over the years there have been 3 or 4 women have come on here looking for advice. Except for Barb, you are the only one who has hung around and engaged with the bike and the site on a regular level to get this thing up and running reliably. learning skills, (some just don't have the aptitude to do this, male or female), and the use of tools that in turn transpires into mechanical knowledge and know-how, so that you not only know your bike inside out but will know how to diagnose and repair, (if needed and not something anyone wishes for), in the event of a breakdown on the road or anytime for that matter
From my point of view, and the site being male dominated, it is a pleasure to see a woman interested and becoming an expert in the maintenance and all round general work-ability of an old bike. Not to be chauvinist, but having a woman around makes for a different mind set, in the context of helping you to become self sufficient and an added bonus is your one of us XS650 nuts.........
Back to or regular program of seals and sockets
MarieKaramazov
XS650 Addict
Okay! I got to 1-8, but then ran out of light. Went with 30ft/lbs for those--a few up from Jim's special rec and the bottom end of what I saw on 5Twins diagrams. Split the difference and hoping that's the sweet spot. One by one, I loosened, wiped off, liberally coated with 10/30 oil, torqued. None of the washers were shredded or fully worn--looks like 4 out of 8 are a rubber like material and the other 4 are metal of some kind. I'll get some copper ones at the store and switch out when I'm not so rushed. Everything went alright, buut I feel a little skeptical about the accuracy of the torque value with this wobble extension (needed for the inner 4 close to frame) because the way it moved and the new torque wrench I got has a penchant for not staying at the damn value I set it at, despite fully tightening it at the bottom. (I did have to use the torque wrench to loosen some bolts because it's longer so I needed more leverage; hopefully that doesn't mess with the torque calibration or whozawhatsit.) I got extenders I can try too. I pretended credit card money wasn't real, so I was able to grab several things at the store. But I'll double check torque on them tomorrow when I do #9 and 10, and then put tank and mount back on. Fingers crossed this solves it!
So to be sure, I should be good skipping tiny Mr. #11?
I'll pick up some of that anti-seize 5Twins--on to the running list of things
I don't have a circlip on the hoses to petcock... they were just secured onto spouts with zip ties...
So to be sure, I should be good skipping tiny Mr. #11?
I'll pick up some of that anti-seize 5Twins--on to the running list of things
I don't have a circlip on the hoses to petcock... they were just secured onto spouts with zip ties...
Not sure if this thread is the right place for it (?), but there will certainly be snippets as I go; that said I'm happy to share that whole story sometime if others want to know as well. Perhaps when I'm further along. I'll be talking more plans though once I get the beast running reliably. Side note: circumnavigating the US on the bike sounds awesome.
You only need to replace the rubber washers on the 4 outer studs with the copper washers. The 4 inner studs are fine with their steel washers. The outer 4 studs flow some oil and that's why they have need of a sealing type washer. The 4 inner studs are dry so just plain steel is fine there.
I've revised my thinking on torque values over the years and am now applying a little less. I should probably find those old posts and "fix" them to reflect this, lol. I like to stay about 30 max now on those 8 studs, so you should be fine using it.
I've revised my thinking on torque values over the years and am now applying a little less. I should probably find those old posts and "fix" them to reflect this, lol. I like to stay about 30 max now on those 8 studs, so you should be fine using it.
I suppose that's fine. But you could look for some small wire cirlips, or use hose clips. In the UK we call them Jubilee clips for some reason but there must be other brands.
You are probably ok with the torque you applied. The alternative to the wobble is to use a longer extension bar, as you mentioned.
Check the literature you got with the torque wrench. Some makers do say not to use it to loosen bolts with the torque wrench, for the reason you stated. Instead, one can use a "cheater bar" on the ratchet to get more loosening torque. This is just a piece a scrap pipe (no need to buy one) that slips over your wrench handle.Often you get a small cheater bar in your Yamaha stock tool kit.
As long as the washer's ain't leakin'... you can just run with 'em.... swap out at your convenience.
Very doubtful you did any damage. One of the less glamorous jobs from my Air Force days..... OK.... it was an effin' mind numbing boredom kinda job... was repairing and calibrating torque wrenches. The design behind them is much more robust than most people think. I doubt you did any damage.
Are there leaks in that area? If not just let it be.
And be advised that it can take up to several hundred miles for you to see the results of your retorque. There's oil still in the mating surfaces and attending gaskets. You'll have to wait for it to work it's way out.
I just use .032" stainless safety wire for all fuel and vacuum lines. Cheap, easy to cut off and replace.
MarieKaramazov
XS650 Addict
A pretty dedicated rain and thunder storm (certainly intense for the likes of LA) came in last night and is continuing now so my work has to be put off today. 
Unfortunately the overhang that I work under outside is rusty and has some holes, so it's leaking underneath there. I got the bike covered last night though thankfully!
I threw away the literature for the torque wrench I got...because...because I did. Knowing me I'll recheck all the values again when I go out there anyway.
I'll grab some safety wire or hose clips today. Maybe read up on batteries/electrical. I just don't fully trust this battery so feel like looking for new now is wise. Looking at lithium. Or maybe reading up on the world of carbs
Unfortunately the overhang that I work under outside is rusty and has some holes, so it's leaking underneath there. I got the bike covered last night though thankfully!Very good to know!
I threw away the literature for the torque wrench I got...because...because I did. Knowing me I'll recheck all the values again when I go out there anyway.
I'll grab some safety wire or hose clips today. Maybe read up on batteries/electrical. I just don't fully trust this battery so feel like looking for new now is wise. Looking at lithium. Or maybe reading up on the world of carbs
The original fuel and vacuum line clips were a single wire spring clip .....
https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/90467-08003-00?ref=847c63d5575ce3ab61f464e27689dd5dfa8528ab
Not much clamping force but enough to keep the line in place. It's all I've ever used. Take a look at the clip holding your breather hose on the engine. It's a larger version of this type of clip. By the way, your breather hose is split and needs replacing, lol.
https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/90467-08003-00?ref=847c63d5575ce3ab61f464e27689dd5dfa8528ab
Not much clamping force but enough to keep the line in place. It's all I've ever used. Take a look at the clip holding your breather hose on the engine. It's a larger version of this type of clip. By the way, your breather hose is split and needs replacing, lol.
Hey all. Please grasp that MarieKaramazov is attempting to repair/service/ RIDE One XS650 and doing so in simple, outside conditions.pretty dedicated rain and thunder storm (certainly intense for the likes of LA) came in last night and is continuing now so my work has to be put off today.
Some suggestions throughout this thread are as if it would be best to equip a full indoor shop and a rollaway tool box.
Perhaps to help in fuel line application, to suggest a slightly longer than original fuel line might aid in more easy tank connection. One of perhaps slightly transparent and tight fitting such as this one found at a garden tractor shop, in my particular case. 6mm id, metric is correct if I remember. Although I happen to have a small assortment of fuel line clamps, I find it only necessary so far (comforting) to put clamps on the carb Inlet and not even have one yet at the petcock..
I am a fan of keeping it simple and gettin it done ! Correct enough to enjoy the experience. You guys with a bike shop and all the time in the world are fine to suggest every tool and accessory to be found online but, it is a recurring event over the years to over suggest/complicate and run off a potential new XS member. Seen it. Watched it. Keep it simple and get this XS running before throwing the full shop hand grenade in the mix.
I'm cheering. California is warm enough outdoors for this to happen fast and cheap!
Attachments
Last edited:
MarieKaramazov
XS650 Addict
Alright! Good news and bad news.
Finished the retorque yesterday. Those wobbly extenders are WAY better than the adapters with the joints in my opinion. Put the motor mount and tank back on. (I didn't use a specific torque value for the motor mount pieces... I just went with "tight"... hopefully that's okay; if not let me know. I saw some values in the manual but, to me at least, it was very vague as to whether it was referring to that piece.) I went with zip ties for the fuel lines; not enough space to use wire properly.
Then I ran it. It was warming up fine. I warmed it up about 80% and then cut it to go get my gear inside to take it out for a test. Pulled it down the sloped side area and started it again to finish warming up. Then it started getting finicky. I would back off the choke (as I normally do) when the revs start hitting 1.5+ and do so until there's no choke (or rather, it is choking and not letting extra gas in) and it's sitting comfortably at 1.2ish RPM. But this time, when I'd back off when it shot up, it would drop really low (1K and wanting less) and try to die. Eventually it did die. Then it wouldn't even stay on long enough--even with full choke which normally it never wants--for me to get it back up the hill/slope. I tried to keep the throttle on and that worked for bit but then if I put it into first, it just cut out. I let it be for a bit and thought about it. Realized my gas tank felt light when I was handling it earlier so gas was on the preeetty low side, so maybe reserve would help at least get it back up the slope (as I cannot put that thing with these high bars up an incline). It worked. I'm not sure if it was just that it needed a minute to calm down to work or what, or if it was because of the reserve.
This morning I went to get some gas, hoping to all that was holy that's all it was. I just put a little less than a gallon in it. Petcock back to "on." Started up on the 3rd try. It was warming up as usual, but then started doing the same thing as yesterday. The second it's warming up and I back off choke (less gas) to lower RPM so it's fully off and I'm riding at 1.2k, it lowers a bit but then wants to start dying. If I give it more choke (more gas), it wants to shoot up way too high again. It didn't try to die per se today, but basically want 1kRPM or 2-3k RPM, yes. I also kept throttle on a bit to stop from dying. This doesn't sound too unlike some of the erratic idle issues I was having at the outset, though that'd happen when I was already warmed up.
Maybe this is just the carb issue rearing it's head or maybe I messed something up in the retorque, but I'm not sure what would do this. Or maybe the battery is finally saying screw you--though it passed the load test etc a few months back. Battery has been on tender the whole time, minus a night or day or so here or there.
All I can think of for now is to increase the idle (I think it's clockwise to richen/increase idle) to see if that helps. That said, if the idle was fine once I fixed the clutch adjustment last time, why would I need to mess with it now... Maybe it's just had it now with the potentially lean set up? Not even sure if that was the issue yet though...
I will say that this bike feels very hot. Maybe these bikes are hotter because they're bigger than my last bike (Yamaha SR400) and older (last was 2015), but certainly feels way hotter than I'm used to, even having my legs near the engine it feels more than warm.
Always something over here!
I really really want to try to get this beast ridable today, let me know what you guys are thinking.
Finished the retorque yesterday. Those wobbly extenders are WAY better than the adapters with the joints in my opinion. Put the motor mount and tank back on. (I didn't use a specific torque value for the motor mount pieces... I just went with "tight"... hopefully that's okay; if not let me know. I saw some values in the manual but, to me at least, it was very vague as to whether it was referring to that piece.) I went with zip ties for the fuel lines; not enough space to use wire properly.
Then I ran it. It was warming up fine. I warmed it up about 80% and then cut it to go get my gear inside to take it out for a test. Pulled it down the sloped side area and started it again to finish warming up. Then it started getting finicky. I would back off the choke (as I normally do) when the revs start hitting 1.5+ and do so until there's no choke (or rather, it is choking and not letting extra gas in) and it's sitting comfortably at 1.2ish RPM. But this time, when I'd back off when it shot up, it would drop really low (1K and wanting less) and try to die. Eventually it did die. Then it wouldn't even stay on long enough--even with full choke which normally it never wants--for me to get it back up the hill/slope. I tried to keep the throttle on and that worked for bit but then if I put it into first, it just cut out. I let it be for a bit and thought about it. Realized my gas tank felt light when I was handling it earlier so gas was on the preeetty low side, so maybe reserve would help at least get it back up the slope (as I cannot put that thing with these high bars up an incline). It worked. I'm not sure if it was just that it needed a minute to calm down to work or what, or if it was because of the reserve.
This morning I went to get some gas, hoping to all that was holy that's all it was. I just put a little less than a gallon in it. Petcock back to "on." Started up on the 3rd try. It was warming up as usual, but then started doing the same thing as yesterday. The second it's warming up and I back off choke (less gas) to lower RPM so it's fully off and I'm riding at 1.2k, it lowers a bit but then wants to start dying. If I give it more choke (more gas), it wants to shoot up way too high again. It didn't try to die per se today, but basically want 1kRPM or 2-3k RPM, yes. I also kept throttle on a bit to stop from dying. This doesn't sound too unlike some of the erratic idle issues I was having at the outset, though that'd happen when I was already warmed up.
Maybe this is just the carb issue rearing it's head or maybe I messed something up in the retorque, but I'm not sure what would do this. Or maybe the battery is finally saying screw you--though it passed the load test etc a few months back. Battery has been on tender the whole time, minus a night or day or so here or there.
All I can think of for now is to increase the idle (I think it's clockwise to richen/increase idle) to see if that helps. That said, if the idle was fine once I fixed the clutch adjustment last time, why would I need to mess with it now... Maybe it's just had it now with the potentially lean set up? Not even sure if that was the issue yet though...
I will say that this bike feels very hot. Maybe these bikes are hotter because they're bigger than my last bike (Yamaha SR400) and older (last was 2015), but certainly feels way hotter than I'm used to, even having my legs near the engine it feels more than warm.
Always something over here!
I really really want to try to get this beast ridable today, let me know what you guys are thinking.
Last edited:
Sounds to me like you just need too raise the idle a tad. At least try that first. Clockwise to increase.
No explanation for the reserve thing
No explanation for the reserve thing
One of the fastest and easiest things to confirm is that the float bowls have clean gas.
Carburetor drains are on the bottom the float bowls. You can flush the current float bowl contents and look for debris in the fuel. Catch it in a pan.
Then, this will confirm one typical problematic, fresh start up cause is in check.
Carburetor drains are on the bottom the float bowls. You can flush the current float bowl contents and look for debris in the fuel. Catch it in a pan.
Then, this will confirm one typical problematic, fresh start up cause is in check.
MarieKaramazov
XS650 Addict
Okay. Started with an idle increase. Bike responded to the increase slower than usual, and I feel like not as much as usual. After warming with choke for 15m-20 min and increasing the idle a whole 1/4 turn, it would sit at idle. However, by that time, I noticed that steam (or smoke?) is coming from the right cylinder. It's not dark as far as I can tell so far, but it's kinda hard to say...it just looks like steam but it's quite a bit of it... When I put some gas in earlier I spilt some on the right cylinder and a bit on top of the exhaust. I wiped it off and then also got a wet paper towel after and wiped it off. Perhaps it's still steaming this off but it seems like quite a bit, and it was steaming/smoking for quite a few minutes, and I feel like it's coming from more than the area I wiped down, top too... Thought id note it with you guys rather than keep it running and have something go totally wrong... (note that the leaky side was the left...first time ive seen anything on the right.
By the way, it's only about 70 degrees out here
By the way, it's only about 70 degrees out here
Interesting
Earlier carburetors such as 78 38's require very little time with the choke on. None of the XS's I've owned ever needed more than a few minutes. Or less even.
-R
Any chance you can shoot a video of the idle sound and smoke/steam as it runs?
MarieKaramazov
XS650 Addict
Yup. This bike (83, I think bs34 carbs) has never taken this long. But if I would try to back off sooner it wanted to drop to or below 1. Normally it's about 5-10 min.Interesting
Earlier carburetors such as 78 38's require very little time with the choke on. None of the XS's I've owned ever needed more than a few minutes. Or less even.
-R
@Jim I'll try for a video. Last time I tried it wouldn't let me upload it.
Also, this is still a thing...Left side muffler is in a little wonky. A few inches off from the right. I don't see gaps, but I can see black smoke residue on the top of the muffler on that side. I doubt it's causing all this as I ran it last time without it being an issue...though that was only for two 20 or so minute rides.
And below, the right side one, which is in properly
I'm wondering if you're only running on one cylinder....
You have to upload it to Youtube or a site like that. This site doesn't host videos.
Also... did you hook the vacuum line back to the left intake manifold from the petcock?
A quick and easy check to see if you're only running on one cylinder is to lick your finger and touch the headpipe up near the motor. It should be very hot and sizzle the spit on your finger if it's running. Make sure you lick your finger or you'll burn it, lol.
