Got an open mind? Consider this.

Servo motors, electric brakes and drives with parameters.....Do they need encoders? Fans and heat sinks. I/O boards. Seals everywhere waiting to fail and let rain water in.... I'm trying to stay positive. Mind you the euipment I work on is used and abused a lot. CNC equipment/technology. Climate controlled environment tho. Speaking of the relationship between water and electricity, we had a tornado come thru a few years back. Blew the roof off. Millions in CNC equipment ruined. Whole MMC lines destroyed.
I've thrown an edit into this three times already, lol. IP adress? You start talking that, machines can be controlled remotely. Don't make a payment? Shut it down. Speeding a lot? State can shut it down or set a parameter so you can't speed. Conspiracy theories are for people that have to much time on their hands. I'll stop now and go build something. Haha! Edit again! Alarm history. Drawing to many amps? Code. Communication error? Code. Thermal? Code. I'm still not a big fan of fuel injection because of the expense of mapping the system out. Ok I'll stop now. Promise.
 
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I know, I know. However, if I charge my ebike up from my own personal windmill and/or electrical solar panels, I avoid most of that crap.
I realise there has been some pollution generated by the manufacture of the windmill or panels, but that's a one-time environmental cost that won't be repeated for twenty years or more.
I've had an e-bike for ten years, and haven't really used it much for the past five or more. Simply can't be arsed with its lack of performance in the rural landscape. It would be different if I lived in a more urban environment.
 
scrambler-parked-bridge.jpg

vintage-electric-scrambler-review.jpg

Vintage Electric, A California E-bike (bicycle) company manufacturers a line up of these. I did ride a 2 year old British green one. All the components are very high quality.
Zoom in o_O
These ride very solid and feel great.
Fast, smooth, and quiet. Expensive? Yes.
 
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Electric Whizzer. Interesting. Bicycle ....brushless dc motor? Someone call Milwaukee. Get these so you can plug your drill into them. Add it to the M18 line. Haha! What about Stihl? Attach their badass weedwhacker. Seriously, keep it simple like a kids power wheel and we might have something.
 
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Got to say, I like the look of those Vintage Electric bikes. Expensive, but, well . . .

I know, I know. However, if I charge my ebike up from my own personal windmill and/or electrical solar panels, I avoid most of that crap.
I realise there has been some pollution generated by the manufacture of the windmill or panels, but that's a one-time environmental cost that won't be repeated for twenty years or more.
I've had an e-bike for ten years, and haven't really used it much for the past five or more. Simply can't be arsed with its lack of performance in the rural landscape. It would be different if I lived in a more urban environment.

These are some of the problems with electric. Everybody and his tree-hugging aunt seems to think electricity is wow just totally green and clean and cool. But where are you getting it from?

The Scottish Government is busy covering the hills around here with vast wind farms. They, uhm, divide opinion. The height of each windmill is something like 328 feet, so you can see these windfarms from anywhere in the Scottish Borders. Some people call that visual pollution and say it will destroy the area as a tourist destination.

However, many think they are a beautiful solution, free energy and no contribution to global warming.

But there are more serious objections. Building a windfarm usually means building a road up across the moors. Then they have to construct a concrete raft, which I'm told is larger than an Olympic swimming pool, as a base for each windmill. In a fragile upland ecosystem. That's a huge amount of environmental damage and invested CO2 in all that concrete. Then there's the invested CO2 in manufacturing the tower, turbine, blades and so forth. Never mind, say the proponents, the 'free' electricity pays back the environmental cost in about five years. That's running at 100% generating efficiency non-stop, of course. But there are days when the wind is too light. Or too strong - they have to shut the turbines down. And they sometimes break down - you never see every turbine turning at one time. On average, we are told each turbine operates at about 20-25% of its rated output. So the payback time stretches out to 20-25 years. Projected lifetime for these windfarms is about, 20-25 years. And then, who's gonna come back and take down the towers and remove the concrete bases?

I think it has been conceded that on-shore windfarms are not a solution to global warming. They are a big contribution to diversity of energy supply, though.

Solar panels? I haven't done any research, but have heard people suggest that the mining of the rare elements they use gives a higher environmental cost than just burning coal to make electricity.

I want to think electricity can be the solution.
 
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Fusion is "just around the corner" :laughing:
No gas a benefit, managing lithium batteries is not trivial or without danger.
I purposely started this thread with a non pedal E motorcycle, if you start looking at pedal assist bikes price speed and range all drop considerably.
With due deference to Machine's post I find any bike with a v-twin engine silhouette a bit "fake feeling"
But I like these.
retro bike.jpg


:rock: :shrug:
Just like mo-cycles the appearance of the machine makes a statement about the rider.
If you start thinking about an e-bike be aware the hoity toity purist bicycle riders will look down at you like many a Harley rider at Japanese bikes.
There are also serious unresolved issues regarding e-bike power levels, trail and street access, licensing, and insurance.
 
Tour de France turning into a electric bicycle Indy race. Haha you said a mouthful on the title. “Open mind” I need not be hateful and over opinionated. Let it get started and then ridicule
 
It is all very complicated to know what the truth is about Green options. Maybe "Green" is just a fashion for the wealthy??
Quite right and just as shallow which is why you'll never see those ugly windfarms off Martha's Vineyard or Malibu.
 
evening everyone,
Just happened across this and thought I'd throw in my two cents, since I actually happen to have an electric motorcycle along with my 650.
First, I totally understand the resistance from a lot of people, especially on a forum dedicated to an older maintenance loving bike. Electric bikes are nowhere near ready to replace combustion, but man they are a RIOT. It is absolutely a completely different experience to have all that instant torque and no sound but a vaguely tie fighter wail. which is kinda cool in itself. But even performance aspects aside, electric has a couple edges. Primarily, even though it has a lot of electronics that we could never fix ourselves if it went wrong, an electric power system has one moving part, and it's a non-contacting movement. Brushless engines are made of two air gapped rings of electromagnets that push away from each other creating spin when power is applied. Which means all you have to maintain on an electric is suspension, drivetrain, tires. How many moving parts are in the 650 engine? feels like thousands sometimes. The main counterargument there being that if something goes wrong, you wont be able to fix it in the garage. counter-counter argument though, that is the situation with every bike made in the last ten years. Built in engines, EFI, and an onboard computer mean that when it doesn't start it goes back to the dealer and costs a grand to ride again.
Here is the real problem. Electric infrastructure sucks. If you don't live in california or texas or somewhere that tesla cares about you'll be slow charging that thing at a diner for 5 hours so you can ride for 2. Going cross country is not realistic. They're commuting and city bikes for now. But the battery wars are in full swing. Tesla announced it has solid state batteries ready to go, which would mean a battery that never degrades. Current lithium ion are liquid based and build up resistance and bi products with each charge that reduce its capacity.
heres the short version, electric bikes are awsome but they won't be competitive with modern gas bikes for about 5 years. But when they catch up to fuel on charging time and range, modern gas bikes will die quickly. Electric is too simple and popular for manufactures to pass up. And when that happens there will be only two kinds of bikes left.
1. New Electric Bikes
2. Old gas bikes that owners can actually repair (like conveniently designed parallel twins)

anyone who cant get their bike working in their garage will find service costs on a 2019 ducati untenable in 2026
 
The thing is - there is no free lunch and the laws of thermodynamics never go out of fashion.

Basically, these laws describe how energy works and how nature can be persuaded to do things that it might not be inclined to do - and finally, what the costs and outcomes of that persuasion operation might be. Without getting into all the math, here are the basics:
  • to make something hotter or colder than it wants to be, or to make it move - takes energy;
  • energy cannot be created, it can only be transformed from one form to another. Say - from chemical energy as in gasoline is transformed into heat, noise (and yeah, perhaps a little vibration....;)) and kinetic or the energy of movement - in an IC engine, or potential energy (as in water in a lake at the top of a hill) can be transformed into kinetic energy in a water turbine and then into electrical energy in an alternator - in a hydroelectric plant;
  • every energy transformation, without exception, will result in a loss - which cannot be recouped.
More colloquially, 43 years ago, my old prof - "Thermo Bill" Gilbert put it to us this way:
  • energy is the game of the universe;
  • ya gotta play the game;
  • you're gonna loose.
That is why putting a generator on the back wheels of an electric car to charge the battery - will not make the car go forever - no-way / no-how. The generator will never produce enough electrical energy to keep up with the depletion of the battery as the electric motor propels the car down the road. The losses will be in the form of friction in the bearings, hysteresis in deforming the vehicle tires, heat throughout the entire system and electrical losses in the generator, propulsion motor, batteries, wiring and control devices. The goal of every engineer is to minimize the losses or use them for something else such as cabin heat, window defrosting or....making you a hot toddy.

As I said above, there simply is no free lunch.

Now - about all those wind turbines that Raymond was talking about - won't they create so much drag that the earth will eventually slow down and stop turning?

If that happens, I sure hope that Canada is pointed at the sun so that we don't get any more winter! :cool:
 
Solar panels? I haven't done any research, but have heard people suggest that the mining of the rare elements they use gives a higher environmental cost than just burning coal to make electricity.
I believe I read something about their disposal being an issue and the fact that they aren't viable north of 40 degrees lat or something like that.
 
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