An Adventure in Firsts: '83 XS650 Heritage Special Build/Rebuild

I noticed looking at the pic you posted that the frame connection end of your negative battery cable looks a bit crusty. This is like the main ground connection for the bike's whole power system so you want it clean and tight. I use that copper anti-seize I mentioned earlier on the bolt and the terminals it fastens to keep the connection corrosion-free .....
And speaking of the battery connections, you should coat them with something to ward off corrosion as well. The old stand-by, which I've been using for many, many, many years on all my vehicle's battery terminals is plain old Vaseline.
When you get the new battery and are making the new connections, you can move the positive wire terminal for your battery tender off the positive battery post as well. If you trace that short original positive battery cable down under the right side cover (blue arrow), you'll find it connected to your starter solenoid (blue "X") .....

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You can attach the positive wire terminal from your battery tender plug (red arrows) there.

Awesome, thanks for all this. Will do.

Alright. Not much else to report. For those in a hurry: new battery ordered and skating by with old setup till then, took bike out, was too dark to check rotor for marks, will do tomorrow. Carbs upcoming while waiting on batt.
For those with more time, story time: Put Humpty dumpty back together again and took him out for gas and then a test. Started easy on reserve with choke. Once I got gas, I warmed it up properly. Still took fair amount of time with choke, but less that last few times--though that's likely because I rode to gas station with choke on--it's not far from me tho. (I really do suspect that choke hole being clogged). Did about a 20min ride. Idle started to occasionally--and more the longer I rode--drop to 1k at stops again. Increased idle speed a touch more than already have. It helped at first as I sat there, but it managed to work it's way back down again at stops. By the time I got back it was too dark to check the rotor/stator scrapes, so that'll have to be tomorrow :(
(Clutch mech does need adjusting again. Even before I went back into LH cover, last times I rode it, the clutch lever didn't loosen up as the bike warmed, and now that I've been in and out of cover I might as well readjust--and get used to doing that. )

@Jan_P I don't have an on board voltmeter, which I will get, but I've already tested the battery 2 months ago-ish. Had right idle voltage, V went up when reving, indicating it's charging, as did light. I also did the poor man's load test. took voltage, let the bike sit on with headlight and retested how much it dropped. Don't remember the #s but it's somewhere in this thread and it passed.

Oh, I did notice that the rubber housing for negative/ground cable is tearing. Looks like interior cable itself is still intact. I'm thinking I'll move this wire above the plastic rectangular piece that's in the way when I clean up that ground.
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Still took fair amount of time with choke, but less that last few times--though that's likely because I rode to gas station with choke on--it's not far from me tho. (I really do suspect that choke hole being clogged).
Next time you go out to the bike, pull the choke lever to full choke and have a look at the linkage on the front of the right carb. Specifically, is this bracket hitting against the side of the carb, or is there a gap there? Pic?

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If you don't have one already, another very useful tool you may want to add to your collection is a medium sized rubber mallet. These are very useful for gently persuading parts on and off without damaging them, things like the engine side covers and your alternator stator. A 1 to 1.5 lb. size is good. HF has some cheap ones that will do the trick .....

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hammers-pry-bars/mallets.html

Recently, a local hardware store had a nicer Stanley on sale for cheap, like $3, so I went over and bought one .....

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It turned out to be so nice, I went back and bought another, lol. Something else I use a rubber mallet on is valve adjustments. If you eventually get around to this, I'll explain more about what I use it for in the valve adjusting process.
 
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If you don't have one already, another very useful tool you may want to add to your collection is a medium sized rubber mallet. These are very useful for gently persuading parts on and off without damaging them, things like the engine side covers and your alternator stator. A 1 to 1.5 lb. size is good. HF has some cheap ones that will do the trick .....

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hammers-pry-bars/mallets.html

Recently, a local hardware store had a nicer Stanley on sale for cheap, like $3, so I went over and bought one .....

lczELBU.jpg


dVSEOCA.jpg


It turned out to be so nice, I went back and bought another, lol. Something else I use a rubber mallet on is valve adjustments. If you eventually get around to this, I'll explain more about what I use it for in the valve adjusting process.
Yeah I have a 1 pounder, and it's awesome. Certainly came in handy with the Chain v. Marie saga.

Wasn't able to get at too much today. I was able to look at rotor and stator and take a look at choke link position when fully open.
CHOKE LINKAGE. Here's choke fully open.
Left side:
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right:
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Sorry the pics aren't the best; I snapped at last minute as it was getting dark. Does look like the screws on the back could be turned in more as I can see a touch of the thread on either side. I'll get a better look at gap tomorrow but it seemed like it went all the way.

STATOR/ROTOR
Results seemed...somewhere in between inconclusive and no scraping; but I may be questioning my ability to assess and do things on this bike at the moment. The marker on rotor edges remained as far as I could tell. The marker on stator scrapes was still there, but I did see a little bit of the silver at the bottom. didn't see where that rubbed on rotor--couldve been on one of the spots with marker already, but not enough to rub it off. I wonder if I just wasn't precise/heavy handed enough with the marker originally. IF there is rubbing/scrapin, it'd have to be pretty minimal/intermittent I figure to not make a conclusive scrape/mark now. I"m second guessing a bunch at the moment so I don't know except to say I should keep an eye on it, maybe cover that silver sliver showing with more marker and see if it disappears again.
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Hopefully reading up on and actually doing some carb assessment tomorrow. And going to order a few straggling items.
 

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CHOKE LINKAGE. Here's choke fully open.
What I'm trying to figure out Marie is if your choke is operating fully. Here, first pic is no choke. See the gap between the bracket and the carb tower?

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Now here's a pic of full choke. The bracket is almost touching the carb. I modded mine or otherwise it would be touching. If yours isn't touching, you're not getting full choke.

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This could be a source of you needing the choke for so long during warmup.

STATOR/ROTOR
Results seemed...somewhere in between inconclusive and no scraping;
Looks to me like a definite scrape, though not near as bad as I originally thought. Don't think that's near bad enough to drag your idle down... that's the good news. The bad is it still needs to be addressed.... rubbing is rubbing. Machine made the offer to send you a good rotor. You might want to take him up on that just to clear up the rubbing. Long term, I can supply a rewound one when you get to that point. For now, it's most likely safe to run it.

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Thinking out loud here ... Again I have not read it all.
Mr Jim knows his stuff and are as it seems doing first class job..
Mr Grizid knows the carburetors.
Mr 5Twins knows his stuff.

Going for a 100 % perfect running bike is a expensive full time job sometimes ..
And nothing that has to be ready and done early or right now... in your case.
Especially if you plan to ride anytime soon .
to get an old Motorcycle to run perfect can be a full time job. Depending on how old and how worn That costs a lot of Money
I see a risk here getting stuck at Mechanical and Electric work and eventually a larger mishap happens in the
Servicing and bike gets parked garaged for a longer time.

There is a slight risk that the Alternator shorts when gets hot ..There is marks I have seen those too
much worse than those seen here.
There was a mishap in the installation ot the stator a broken " fin " those things happen.
There was a short video of it running nothing major then.
A uneven idle rpm I would regard as a normal more or less for a bike that has been sitting.
Even for a running bike it can change there a cables that might stick holding a little ..lots of things.
I myself turn the small screw by hand now and then .in traffic at stop lights.
Being to lazy to oil / lubricate or change the wire.

After a while revving and getting warm .. flushing fresh petrol through it I would expect it to get better.
Keep an eye on the charging ,,,and again if you like ..post a video here .So we can assess the running
Have not read all but it sounds as you can ride ...

The short viedo I saw ( again not looked thoroughly ) looked and sounded as if you were set to go
If the stop on the road was Because of no Petrol Does not change that
Money for the taxi ride home. In the back pocket And having telephone charged
Is something to consider. All normal part of the hobby.
Longer runs out of town water and food.

Again
A video and we can listen and look after smoke knocking and misfiring
most likely you are on the road ..30 , minutes later Instead of on the knees with dirty hands
In my view it is acceptable having a non perfect running bike at this point in time
AS long as it starts charges and runs without any noises.
The last video gave the indication it was almost there ( Again I have not read all )

In general terms one can always keep a Road vehicle from this time and older running and on the road
But at the end of the lifecycle it takes more effort and more money to do so.
Gentlemen experts mentioned above have interest experience and tools
The essence is when does the wrenching stop and the riding begins.
 
Yeah I have a 1 pounder, and it's awesome. Certainly came in handy with the Chain v. Marie saga.

Wasn't able to get at too much today. I was able to look at rotor and stator and take a look at choke link position when fully open.
CHOKE LINKAGE. Here's choke fully open.
Left side:
View attachment 182805
View attachment 182806
right:
View attachment 182807
Sorry the pics aren't the best; I snapped at last minute as it was getting dark. Does look like the screws on the back could be turned in more as I can see a touch of the thread on either side. I'll get a better look at gap tomorrow but it seemed like it went all the way.

STATOR/ROTOR
Results seemed...somewhere in between inconclusive and no scraping; but I may be questioning my ability to assess and do things on this bike at the moment. The marker on rotor edges remained as far as I could tell. The marker on stator scrapes was still there, but I did see a little bit of the silver at the bottom. didn't see where that rubbed on rotor--couldve been on one of the spots with marker already, but not enough to rub it off. I wonder if I just wasn't precise/heavy handed enough with the marker originally. IF there is rubbing/scrapin, it'd have to be pretty minimal/intermittent I figure to not make a conclusive scrape/mark now. I"m second guessing a bunch at the moment so I don't know except to say I should keep an eye on it, maybe cover that silver sliver showing with more marker and see if it disappears again.
View attachment 182802
View attachment 182804

Hopefully reading up on and actually doing some carb assessment tomorrow. And going to order a few straggling items.
As far as I am aware these carburettor set ups don’t have a fast idle device in the linkage. If the engine is cold it will need choke, and it will not idle correctly until the engine temp has risen but, after a few seconds say 20, you can turn off the choke as long as you keep a fast tick over with the twist grip. Having the engine idling for extended periods with the choke on is quite detrimental, sooty plugs etc.
Great work, keep it up you will get there.
 
I wouldn't be concerned about that particular scrape, except maybe to wonder what's going on to cause it (i.e. what's bent) but that's probably for next pass. The choke, mine needs choke to start easily even if it's just been off for an hour or two. If overnight, the choke needs to stay on a half a mile or so. That's pretty typical. My '81 has a plunger mechanism with a 1/2 setting that's kind of like a fast idle. Some years are just on/off is my understanding. '83 is a cool year, lots of little uniquenesses
 
I'll just throw in too that your local hardware store will most likely have 7/16" copper washers for about a buck apiece. My local Ace had 'em. That's what you see in the pic above.:sneaky:
The Ace here had up to 3/8" copper and then 1/2" bronze I would assume the bronze wouldn't work?
 
Quick update!

COMPLETED:
--replaced side oil filter and gaskets with new one. Thanks @Machine ! No problems there.
For reference, here's how much gunk accrued on old filter between last oil change and now (note that filter wasn't soaked, I just scraped stuff off, so I don't know if this is saying much)
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--readjusted clutch mechanism today. Will see how well that went on next ride.
--Ran the rotor/stator scrape test again. (I didn't trust that I'd marked up stator sufficiently). Not seeing anything that says it's conclusively scraping--shining a light on it kind of tricks your eyes in this dim work area but I don't see an actual scrape. And I've run it several times. So I say move on and if I still have problems after everything else, I'll look again or look at other charging area possibilities.
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--Drained the float bowls according to @650Skull (post 357) instructions. They didn't have any clear tubing at the local place I went to and I was rushed so went with some black hose and drained it into a foil pan. There was some black debris that hit the pan from both sides, but pretty minimal. I did it twice since I realized I'd need to drain them after the prime test if I was going to take off the bowl. On the first test, neither kept dripping after draining, so it seemed the floats were sealing. I then ran both sides on prime for a few moments. Gas flowed freely. Then I put petcock back to "on" and drained the right side again. That didn't keep dripping after emptying, but when I was draining that carb, some gas dripped a bit out of the left carb drain. Then stopped. I then drained left side and and it drained fine and didn't continue to drip after some moments... So excepting that brief drip from left when draining right, it seems like floats are sealing. I'll have to drain again when I remove the float bowls so we'll see if that happens again.

REMAINING TO DO:
--Remove float bowls and inspect choke inlet and look for debris (re @5twins instructions, post 367). I tried to do this today, but it seems that my stubby screwdriver isn't stubby enough to get to the screws that secure the float bowl. It looks like there's 4 for each. Going to look into a smaller screwdriver or maybe there is one that has an adjustable head so I can reach in there and still have enough torque to turn, especially for those further to center.
--Put in new battery. It has arrived! I also got some copper anti seize
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*
In other news, rechecked for oil in cam covers. Left is dry, right has a tiny touch--looks like maybe just a bad/loose seal? I should've wiped out before putting back on to check how quickly this happens..:doh:
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Also, in last rides, I have seen no oil pooling or even weeping on base of left cylinder! :thumbsup:
In general, the rides have been about the same as I've been saying, some better than others. It idles between 1.5k and 1k at different intervals of the ride (idle assessed at stops in either first or neutral; not seeing significant difference between idle at 1st v neutral.) It's running (done rides up to 45m round trip, 55-60 max so far) but basically it's still requiring lots of warmup time to get to 1.2k, sassy about that drop in idle throughout ride, and sometimes starting requires several attempts (this seems to have improved a touch..). Noticed that the RPM on this rarely ever goes above 3k, even when pushing it at a speed higher than that gear wants...that said, again only hit 55-60mph max.

A note about the choke: Assuming I'm understanding what you guys mean by a "fast idle" choke, yes, I believe this is basically how this choke operates. It's not just "on" or "off." I can gauge how much choke I give. I generally put it to about 1/2 way (used to only need a bit over a 1/4) to start, let it idle around 1.5k for a minute and then back off the choke until I can get it to sit at 1.2k without any choke. As noted, this has been taking a long time to do. Still the case, but last few times, I've been just doing choke a it a few minutes, to where choke is around 1/4, then I ride it for a block or two, lower as much as possible without it dying, and then kill choke completely in next block or two and keep on throttle if needed to keep it above 1k. I hadn't done this before as I was unde the impression that it wasn't good to throttle/ride when engine is still "cold" and I felt like sitting at 1.2k without choke was really a sign of that, but clearly it's quite literally hot before that happens...


To buy: adjustable screwdriver thingy, on board voltmeter, valve tools, oil drain gaskets, valve cover gaskets, ...
 
Quick update!

To buy: adjustable screwdriver thingy, on board voltmeter, valve tools, oil drain gaskets, valve cover gaskets, ...

Ha, ha, that list will never end...the joys of owning an old bike. End up with a lot of nice tools, also end up with a tool window shopping addiction

if the bowls haven't been off for a long time it may be hard to get them off while the carbs are on the bike. If yo do get them off change the screws for allen key screws, then they will be easy to get on and off while the carbs are on the bike.

Get that ignition box off Jim......the lack of revs sounds like an advance problem and if it is, the box could also be the cause of the hard starting and idle problems.....
 
If you are riding 60 mph, it should be revving more than 3K rpm? Wonder if the tach is accurate? That’s great that you’re getting some ride time in between repairs and testing. Don’t feel bad about the inconsistent idle. My bike does that too but for a different reason and I just accept it and enjoy the bike.
 
It's good progress. Yes, it's normal to need a tiny bit of throttle to prevent the engine stalling for the first 1/2 mile or so. Good that you're doing a few miles on the bike, you will become more familiar & more confident with it. The bike should happily rev way past 3000 so might be a dodgy tacho but I'd second Skull's suggestion of swapping Jim's ignition box. Getting there though.
 
Thanks, guys. If it is a sketchy tach, perhaps that would also account for the supposedly low idle and/or inconsistent readings. That said, when it reads as low (around 1k), I can hear that it's idling slow so I don't think that's way off. About to switch out the battery now and then hoping to take it for a spin, take a closer look at those revs when I do, and I'll come back with RPM readings and then reach out to you @Jim about TCI!

Side note: any sneaky tips on getting the damn battery out? Sounds like a silly question perhaps but last time I was out there I couldn't get a good grip on it from top, pushing from bottom didn't help enough as it's heavy, and I don't want to pull it up by the terminals. I'm sure I'll figure something out when I go out..

Specifically, is this bracket hitting against the side of the carb, or is there a gap there? Pic?
Also, forgot to follow up on this. There's no gap with full choke
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no choke:
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ETX14 is so wide that it is near tight on both sides of the steel battery box. Has to come out straight up.
Hook front or rear with a bent something :)
 
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