Mr Riggs Hydraulic Clutch Conversion

Excellent! I can't wait to see the results and to have this fitted. I have 5 bikes that could all use this upgrade. I plan to use the strongest clutch setups to help put the power to the ground.

Just get yourself a lockup clutch

How much power are you talking about? the best XS bikes in the day were US dirt oval machines (AKA the Kenny Roberts era) generating at most 75hp,and required the famous OW heads, with it came a host of problems including unreliability; and so Harley were still able to hold onto the short track/long track championships, only when Kenny rode the 750cc 2 stroke monster did he blow Harley away - and he was quoted " they don't me enough to ride this thing!). But to come back to the clutch; I have personally found great discrepancy in the length of clutch springs; the OEM length is 34mm; most after market items are 40+mm which can't fit as they are so compressed that they litterally block the clutch rod from moving sufficently to disengage the plates - AND are of course so incredibly hard / stiff. I have recently read a number of articles on U tube about modifying clutch pull on MX bikes , and they came to the same conclusion - just back-off the amount of compression by inserting washers or spacers under the clutch bolt from 2 - 5 mm.

Slippery said:

back-off the amount of compression by inserting washers or spacers under the clutch bolt from 2 - 5 mm

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Are you saying do this in a case where the new springs are longer?
Would another option be use the oem springs and put a washers under the spring?
Anyone have thoughts on this? I'm curious about washers under springs or bolts w longer springs. I'm afraid of space issues w washers under bolts. The washers under springs might help? Springs are inexpensive enough just a thought if looking for a bit more grip.

Slippery said:

and he was quoted " they don't me enough to ride this thing!)

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]
and he was quoted " they don't pay me enough to ride this thing!
Fixed not being a smart ass I hope.

So I stopped by my machinist friends last night expecting to see a near completed slave cylinder. We have/had (had being the operative word thankfully) come across a stumbling block gentleman.

The holes bored for the heads of the countersunk cap screws used to fix the whole assembly broke through the groove cut for the oil seal. I guess these things happen when you’re not developing using a programme like Solidworks and can visual the whole internal workings?

Anyway, my friend is dead against the idea of using a circlip to fix everything in place, has been from the start. So here’s his solution (and I think it’s a damn fine one)

The centre of the outside face has a shallow blind hole that is tapped for a M8 bolt, there is then a ‘cap’ that fits into the existing hole in the casing for the clutch worm drive plug, this is tightened down onto the slave cylinder holding everything in place nice and snug...



Ignore the bolt in the photo, that’s a M6 and all he has laying around. I really liked his solution but offered a slight deviation, why not copy the form of the original factory plug? I thought that would look great, close to factory but with a slight modified look. So that’s what we’re doing.

He’d already made a second slave cylinder assembly and when I spoke to him today finished the first cap/plug, whatever you want to call it? I’m going to pick it all up Tuesday or Wednesday and then it’s off for testing.

Oh and here’s the finished piston..



Sorry for the lengthy post. Any further questions and I’ll try to answer in a more concise manner.

Daniel.

Minor issues like this are to be expected as one goes through the R&D process. Glad progress is being made. Thanks for your efforts and keeping us posted.

Its looking good, a much better arrangement than that previously built buy Heiden tuning which had a lock ring outside the side cover held by a lock screw.
Just to clarify my previous post - yes I miss quoted Kenny - we should have a grammar checker - he did say that they (Yamaha) didn't PAY him enough - he only rode it once in competition and won by a few seconds - spent the whole race getting the thing under control riding around the outside of the whole field speedway style. Only ever did some demonstrations after that - its fair to say he didn't like it as it could easily kill him if he hit the speedway wall which he rode very close to the whole race.
As for the clutch spring washer/spacer, they're meant to go under the retaining bolt not the spring; aka lengthen the bolt, reduce the spring compression. Can be used anytime with OEM or aftermarket springs to reduce the lever pressure. How long the space depends on the clutch plates thickness wear and tear and your style of riding - full bore drags vs cruiser rides will determine the level of pressure needed for grip.

...waiting is.

Finally was well enough , long enough to get to the garage.
Updates as they happen, film at 11:00

Slippery said:

How much power are you talking about? the best XS bikes in the day were US dirt oval machines (AKA the Kenny Roberts era) generating at most 75hp,and required the famous OW heads, with it came a host of problems including unreliability; and so Harley were still able to hold onto the short track/long track championships, only when Kenny rode the 750cc 2 stroke monster did he blow Harley away - and he was quoted " they don't me enough to ride this thing!). But to come back to the clutch; I have personally found great discrepancy in the length of clutch springs; the OEM length is 34mm; most after market items are 40+mm which can't fit as they are so compressed that they litterally block the clutch rod from moving sufficently to disengage the plates - AND are of course so incredibly hard / stiff. I have recently read a number of articles on U tube about modifying clutch pull on MX bikes , and they came to the same conclusion - just back-off the amount of compression by inserting washers or spacers under the clutch bolt from 2 - 5 mm.

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Well, in terms of horsepower, the engine I have now can break the clutch loose if I slam past 5500 rpm. That is good information, I will note that in my hunt for different clutch components. The R1 in the late 90's early 2000's. I am looking into slipper clutch or lock up type components to enhance the experience. I am attempting to hit at least 70-71 with a setup I am planning out now. Using a custom fuel injection controller I am waiting to beta test called NanoEFI. Using a Kawasaki ex650 Throttle body, a PMA rotor with a machined ring pressed onto the outer edge and a pinned or tig welded ring to trip a sensor, I'll use either a xs charge or a tytronics cam position sensor to fire the fuel injectors. It provides a fully customizable fuel map. Using all the sensors the NanoEFI can fuel any setup i throw at it. I have a XS1 head combo, and will put that on a 750 kit, titanium valves train, custom cut camshaft, porche elephant foot rockers and I am also pursuing a roller rocker setup and having it dynamically balanced to keep it all smooth and as light as possible inside. I will be following the books and other information i have cataloged to push this to as mean of a machine as the engine can handle. there have been setups as large as 800cc and larger, but I think with an optimized valve train the engine can easily maintain 70 horsepower without cracking the case.
I have built an RD350 that easily broke 60 hp using about every idea i could find, ported to the moon, with yz125 reed cage so i didn't punch into the transfer ports like with a banshee cage, rz350 crank in a trenched out crankcase and machined off water pump drive to fit in the case, 32mm tmx flatslide carbs and a massive crossover intake and y pipe intake and banshee billet clutch case, poly clutch bushings and the heaviest springs i could pull with a ducati hydraulic clutch slave cylinder and brembo rc16 radial master cylinder. I stretched the rear swing arm 2.5 inches just to keep the front tire from spending the entire time in the air.
I would try to ride the TZ750 in a heart beat, that would be insanity.

ShaggyMech said:

I would try to ride the TZ750 in a heart beat, that would be insanity.

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there is no try there is only do ...

That's a whole lot of mods, do you need to build new rocker arms to accomodate the rollers? All those efi mods must need a lot of space to fit.

ShaggyMech Please start a build thread for your EFI bike. I any no doubt others would be very keen to follow your progress.

Hi Daniel I would be very interested in one of these.Can I be added to the list? thanks stuart

I think your machinist is smart to advise against a circlip/snapring, They don't allow for variation. I like the cap and screw method as being more positive.

RC4MAN said:

I think your machinist is smart to advise against a circlip/snapring, They don't allow for variation. I like the cap and screw method as being more positive.

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He said he felt it was a poor solution, that with the discrepancies in the casings there would be too much room for things to rattle. I did tell him these bikes don’t vibrate much!

Daniel.

stuart23 said:

Hi Daniel I would be very interested in one of these.Can I be added to the list? thanks stuart

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Hi @stuart23

Thanks for your interest, would you like to be added to the list?

Daniel.

If you want to go fully stealth, then integrate some way to put a chrome cover on like the factory piece and it will disappear into the side cover :-D

Bewarethemoon said:

Hi @stuart23

Thanks for your interest, would you like to be added to the list?

Daniel.

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Yes thanks

The ‘MK 2’ version is secured using a capping piece that is the exact size and shape of the factory plug. Visually the only differences are that it’s a machined aluminium piece (you could always sand the machining marks & polish) and there’s the head of an M8 countersunk bolt in the centre.

Daniel.