18" rear wheel lacing problems

[jhodge]

Hey Guys,

I have a (I believe) stock 18" rear rim, with drum brake that I'm trying to re-lace. I have the Mikes XS spoke set 19-0060 that should fit. When lacing up the "outers", everything is fine. The spokes fit, the angles are correct, the rim is centered on the wheel. Life is good. The problem is when trying to lace the "inners", the angle of the spoke just doesn't allow the spoke to go to the center of the rim. To get it in the hole would require bending the spoke at least 1/8" to 3/16" to fit in the hole. Unfortunately, I no longer have the old spokes to compare with. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Jay

 

[5twins]

I've used those spokes before with no problems. My best guess is you've got the pattern wrong or maybe some of the inners and outers mixed up. Post some pics of the wheel if you can. I can put some up of correctly laced ones if you need a reference. The start is all important. You need to get the first spoke on each flange in the right spot or the rest will be wrong.

 

[jhodge]

5Twins,

Thanks for the quick reply. I can't post a picture right now, but that is exactly the way I have the first 18 spokes in. I have also double checked that I haven't mixed any of the spokes up. On about the 3rd try, I just tried putting the 90 degree (or inners or long, what ever we want to call them) in the hub by themselves, and they just don't go anywhere close to the center of the rim. The holes that are punched in my rim are directional, and off center according to their orientation, but still, the remaining spokes just don't angle far enough to the inside of the rim

Jay

 

[jhodge]

This first picture is just to show how I started.

The second is showing that one spoke from each flange is next to the valve stem

This picture shows that the rim is centered.

This picture shows how far off the spoke is from the hole.

 

[5twins]

Is that stuff powder coated? If so, that may be the problem. Excess powder in the hub spoke hole seats may not allow the spoke heads to seat in correctly (deep enough). You may need to twirl a suitably sized drill bit in the spoke seats to clean them out. I ran into this problem with a powder coated hub but it was the outers that gave me trouble.

Got a pic of the spoke heads? Outers are usually angled a little less than 90°, inners a little more .....

When installing spokes, you must do all the inners, both sides, first, then the outers. If you put any of the outers in, they will block installing the last of the inners.

 

[jhodge]

One of my inner spokes

One of my outer spokes. 90 degree bend at the most, and no longer than the inner.

Yes, they are powder coated, but I completely cleaned out a couple of the holes to see if that was the problem, and it didn't help. Looking at your spokes, I'm more inclined than before to think it is a spoke problem. Your "outer" spoke is clearly bent beyond 90 degrees, and is longer than the "inner". My "outer" spokes on the other hand are bent to only 90 degrees, and are not any longer than the "inners".

 

[5twins]

But I thought it was the inners that were giving you problems? Maybe we're confusing which is which. The inners insert into the hub from the outside but run along the inside of the hub flange. The outers lay along the outside of the hub flange. Your 1st couple pics show inners installed.

 

[jhodge]

Well the problem is I'm confusing which is which. I think confusing in name only, not placement, however. Sorry about that. Yes, the pictures above show inners installed, with no problems. The outers, with their 90 degree angle, just won't allow the spoke to angle towards the center of the rim. They just lay flat on the hub.

Thanks,

Jay

 

[5twins]

Well yes, then it could be the outer spoke being made wrong, especially if every outer spoke is doing that. If it only happens with the last couple or last one, then it might be a pattern error. Here's how to check that .....

Spokes next to each other on the same flange that cross (an inner and an outer) will be 6 holes apart on the rim.

 

[figure8]

I used this as a guide when I laced mine, worked just fine.

http://www.xs650chopper.com/2009/12/how-to-lace-a-wheel-from-scratch/

 

[jhodge]

Yep, I used that one as well. As you can see from my pictures, I did lace them up just like they did. I have taken the wheel apart again, just to confirm that the problem is simply the angle of the bend is not sharp enough, nor is the length of the bend to the head long enough, to allow the spoke to angle properly towards the center of the rim. It's pretty obvious when you can see it without any of the other spokes in the way. I'll post a picture shortly.

Thanks for all the help, and I'll be sending these back to Mike's, along with the ignition advance rod that is too short. If you were following that one, an OEM one found locally, was measured, and it was about 20 thousandths longer than the one supplied by Mike's. That 20 thousandths was all it took for the rod to rotate in the cam, as opposed to being pinched by the breaker plate and pamco rotor.

Thanks again for all the input.

Jay

 

[jhodge]

As you can see, this spoke is just not headed towards the center of the rim. All 18 look just like this. Also, when comparing the photo from 5twins of his outer, to the photo of my outer, you can clearly see a difference in degree of bend, and length of the spoke after the bend, to the head. Longer, with more bend would allow the spoke to head directly to the appropriate hole in the rim.

 

[hard_y_rd]

Are you sure you don't have your inner and outers mixed up? If not compare the new spoke to an old one if you have one and check the length at the bends. The new ones could be shorter. Classic Mikes.

 

[jhodge]

Yeah, I'm sure nothing is switched. 18 spokes fit perfectly, 18 spokes don't fit. I ordered a set from Buchanan's today, and I'm sure all will work out fine.

Jay