1st gear problem

- looks pretty sweet :thumbsup:
- i regularly ride up to roskilde and back...great trip...language wouldnt be a problem :bike:
 
@inxs
That's some ride on a 30 year old bike... I think I'm gonna wait until I have ridden it a bit more and sorted all the little things out. I have been to Roskilde festival about 10 times, but not in the last couple of years. Are you going for this years festival?

@pumps
Thanks. It's really not that big a deal about the chainguard. I will be taking this one of again and eventually going to put on a swingarm from a kawasaki zephyr. But thank you for thinkin of me.

I really want this thing plated now and go riding!!!
 
- not a bad line up this year-not their best but would be worth a look if i hadnt so many commitments this year...that'll be 2 out of the last 20 missed, great party but im too old to enjoy sleeping on site any more :yikes::laugh:
 
Hi'ya,

Thought I'd join the site to see if I could find help with my jumping first gear issue and lo and behold you've done it with this thread. I can see exactly what's needed and how to modify the dogs now.

Now all I have to do is find a 'new' 1st and 4th gear and a selector fork.

Have to say this is the only thread on the internet that nails this issue down to it's real cause and solves it.

Cheers Fella's
:thumbsup:
 
Welcome Bob,
Used to live in Gosport only a few years ago myself.
Not sure of the availabilty of the parts you require new, Heiden Tuning HERE list neither 1st or 4th gear. You could try Twins inn HERE, its a German site but use you goggle translator.
There's a 2nd hand complete set of gears & selector forks on ebay now HERE
Hope that helps you a bit mate :thumbsup:
Pop over & see the UK XSers at http://www.customxs650.com/
 
Wow, that was fast!

Thanks for this info, I can get hunting now. I have my eye on the ebay item :) and I will head over to the UK site for a gander.

Cheers
 
The question at our shop was do worn dogs cause the shift fork to bend or does a bent fork cause the dogs to wear.One thing we were told at many service schools was to take the gear shift levers off the bikes in the showroom to stop people from trying to shift gears without the engine running.Yamaha,Honda,Kawasaki and Suzuki service reps all claimed this was causing bent shift forks which was causing premature transmission failures mostly in fist or second gear.
 
xsjohn said:
Look at the mating surfaces where the dogs meet the mating gear.......2-5 the gear dogs are slightly beveled so the gears actually pull themselves together when torque is applied.....now first the bevel is not there so if worn any the gears will pull apart..........I always build the bevel back into first gear........ dremmel and all.....yea but that's me......I also try to tell people other things about these but usually all that goes unheeded also...........for instance my 8-1 80 at 92 degrees now runs wonderful........not that way 12 years ago...........Tee Hee for the summer on these .............LOL

xsjohn
Click to expand...

Does this mean that you beveled (@ 92 degrees) the contact surfaces on the 4th and first wheel?
 
Thought I'd let you know that I did buy another gear cluster on Ebay but it didn't turn out to be any better than what I already had! anyway I tried modifying them manually but hell I don't know how you do it so it bears the load perfectly across both faces.

So I went to a local wire eroding firm and had them machined within microns.. and it was so cheap I did both sets of gears so now I have a spare set.
 
jimwd, You need just enough bevel to be a bevel. To much and they may be hard to shift. Not enough and they still pop out.
Both the dogs and the mating surfaces should have the bevel.
I have yet to have tried this because I haven't had to. the bikes I have act fine. No slipping out of gear.
TwoWheelBob, good deal on someone to do it cheaply.
Leo
 
jimwd, You need just enough bevel to be a bevel. To much and they may be hard to shift. Not enough and they still pop out.
Both the dogs and the mating surfaces should have the bevel.
I have yet to have tried this because I haven't had to. the bikes I have act fine. No slipping out of gear.
TwoWheelBob, good deal on someone to do it cheaply.
Leo
 
Resurrecting an old thread here and looking for an experienced opinion. Just took my bike out for the first ride of the season yesterday and it popped out of first gear several times. Last year no troubles like that but occasionally shifting from first to second was rough before I parked if for the winter. Interestingly it popped out of gear both on acceleration and on deceleration, and when it popped out it would go sometimes back in by itself which is obviously not good. When I was out I did try one run of hard acceleration and that was OK but didn't repeat it for fear of breaking something worse than it already is. Each time it popped out it was under relatively light load conditions.

Anyway went though quite a few threads here (good info for sure) but I found something that I didn't see mentioned before. I pulled the clutch cover off today hoping to find a broken spring but didn't, looking at it I noticed that the star washer on the shift drum shaft was loose and not lined up with the pins. Pulled the clutch off and took the screw out of the star washer and found that it was bent a little probably from being loose and wobbling.

So before I pull the engine and split the cases I was wondering, could this in fact be the entire problem, or could it have contributed to the problem occurring? My suspicion is that there is now a problem with the fork and/or the bevel but it sure would be nice not to have to pull it apart if I don't need to.

BTW, the picture I attached is not from my bike, I included it just to identify the part I was describing.
 

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Found another thing, the pivot point of the detent roller has a lot of play in it in the direction I marked in the attached. I have a spare engine for parts and that one has a lot less play in it but still quite a bit.
 

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Hey, dps650rider!
Yup, might be some problems in there.

To start, do a forum search on "shiftdrum 1st". Maybe a dozen threads.

The screw in the starwheel also holds the 2 parts of the shiftdrum together. That's more important, a loose starwheel shouldn't be the problem.

Yes, the drum stopper needs to be in good shape. Also, the "C" shaped stopper plate.

Those could be the origin of your problem.

Then there's the aftereffects.

Possibly bent fork, rounded gear dogs.
In one of those threads I describe a method to help determine how much rounding and bending.

In another 1st gear thread, we discuss in excruciating detail the positioning, spacing, and bushing of the large 1st wheel gear.

Sorry so brief. On stoopidphone...
 
That screw was so loose you could grab the drum that holds the shift ratchet pins and wobble it easily back and forth. So it would seem to me that it wasn't doing a good job of holding the drum in position.

I just bushed the pivot point of the drum stopper (having trouble with the terminology here :umm:), now is hardly moves.

Found the thread on rotation of the drum to see when engagement starts, if I can find a way to measure the rotation that's next.

Thanks!
 

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