71 XS1 - Clutch worm gear help!!!

[justinseaworthy]

Hello all!

So I am in need of some help. Bought a 1971 XS1 about a year ago and finally getting around to finishing it. It has been nothing but trouble from the start... I'm so close to being done, and its only getting worse!

Heres the issue (for now):
After putting on my new cables and starting to take some of the slack out, I noticed that the clutch (push?) assembly was stuck (the part the cable attaches to behind the case). After taking it off and cleaning it, I noticed the plastic "worm gear" was cracked in half, swollen, and not allowing it to spin in the housing. Didn't think it would be a big deal to just grab one on ebay and call it a day....nope.
I am finding/being told there are 3 different kinds just for an XS1?! I have yet to find one that matches what I have.

Can I just get the whole assembly (housing and all), replace everything and be good?
Does anyone know where I can get one of these?
Is there a gear from another year/model I can use that will work?

Any help would be very much appreciated!!!

Thanks
Justin

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...authkey=!APu5dIZ3kv8K3To&v=3&ithint=photo,jpg

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...authkey=!ABkZFRoM1k2uJmg&v=3&ithint=photo,jpg

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Hey, Justin. Yeah, that one's dead. The extreme very early XS1 worm actuator was aluminum worm components, very rare, hard to find, expensive. You're better off with the regular factory white nylon worm unit. There were three variants, the only functional differences were the lengths of the arms, and the later version of the adjuster screw (phillips vs flat screwdriver). They all interchange. Appear often on eBay.

Now, if you want a new one, an assembly is available from MikesXS. However, this one is a little different. Has black plastic worm body and a slightly lessened worm pitch, so its components don't work with the factory originals. Because of the gentler worm pitch, it's best used with the cable attached to the inboard clevis pin hole.

If you enjoy reading for punishment, piledrive through these:

XS650 clutch actuator experiments:

Clutch worm actuator experiment and tidbits
Clutch worm mod testing
Clutch pushrod experiment and tidbits
Clutch cable experiment and tidbits
Clutch worm rotation gauge

Clutch worm depth dialgauge-post90
Clutch worm depth dialgauge-post91
Clutch worm depth dialgauge-post92

 

[justinseaworthy]

Wow, thank you for the info!

So if I am understanding you right, I can interchange the whole assembly with the other styles of xs1 worm gears?

I have read a few of those links, I will check out the others.

Thanks again!

 

[justinseaworthy]

Like this?
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=301279548215&alt=web


I can't find many nylon ones on ebay, and mikes is sold out.
Sorry for so many questions, when it comes to clutches, I'm pretty much lost.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Whew... Took awhile to find these. That one you posted will work, just need the matching white nylon worm body. Here's some more:

Here's what's on eBay, as of Aug 20, 2014

You'll need to get the matching white nylon worm body with the worm/lever part:

http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=400207913744&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=200816054856&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=370975670264&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=261465403517&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=161396295171&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=141073323217&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=141052308905&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=110662336571&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=360750012417&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=400382294465&alt=web

Here's the super-early XS1 parts. Oddball 3-start thread, aluminum body, nylon worm:

http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=291196727714&alt=web
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=181423571326&alt=web

Here's a complete unit. Clean-up, ready to go.

http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=400143174554&alt=web

 

[justinseaworthy]

You're awesome.
Gives me a much better understanding of what I am look for!

Thanks so much, TwoManyXS1Bs!!

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Yewbetcha! Now, you know you're obligated to post a pic of that awesome machine...?

 

[justinseaworthy]

This is it so far. Tank, fenders, headlight, and rear brake to be finished up this weekend! (clutch part to be in next week!!) If I'm lucky...maybe even start her up!

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...authkey=!AEUSuhTmRUM2b78&v=3&ithint=photo,jpg

 

[gggGary]

2many; another member pm'd me with a similar issue and I think it's "not quite that simple".

From his parts pics it appears the two bolts that hold the early adjuster to the cover use a smaller CL to CL distance. I think I have one of those early covers but have not removed it to check this out yet.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

2many; another member pm'd me with a similar issue and I think it's "not quite that simple".

From his parts pics it appears the two bolts that hold the early adjuster to the cover use a smaller CL to CL distance. I think I have one of those early covers but have not removed it to check this out yet.

Well, THAT would certainly be a 'heads up'.
The standard worm body and casecover use a 40mm center-to-center screwhole for 5mm screws.
The opening in the case is 27mm, to accept the worm body protrusion.

 

[gggGary]

Okay the centers ARE different but larger on the early covers 55mm
The quick tell is the early covers have a threaded inspection cap.
Both these are 1970 one is about SN1700 the other is late in the year, 4000ish.

early 70



late 70


The cover hole appears to be 30mm. Distance from the case to the ball in the worm "looks the same".

Sorry for the poor pic quality the lens was sweating in the heat.
Who'd a thunk I could tell 2many ANYTHING about clutch arms????

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Who'd a thunk I could tell 2many ANYTHING about clutch arms????

Haha, yeah, your 6 metric tons of XS stuff is paying off.

Those early '70s covers and worm actuators are a strange lot. Your covers probably have a '256' casting mark, on the inside. The parts fiche implies that there may have been as many as 10 variants of that early cover, of which you have two. The '306' covers may have had 5 variants.



My stocker's cover (later half of the XS1B model run) has a '306' casting mark, even though it has the '256' pattern. My other bike's cover (1st half of XS1B model run) is buried somewhere in a box in storage somewhere, so not available for pic.



We may never see the end of this. I'll be sure to post pics of my other one whenever I dig it out.

 

[MarkSteedSpeed]

Hi guys,
I just traveled this worm gear path of confusion.
Thanks to Gary he led me down the correct path.
Once I had the correct part number of the worm, and searched it, a few NOS parts popped up.
Not only was my plastic gear broken, the ball bearing inside the worm was gone on the original part in the bike.
Thank again.
Mark

 

[MarkSteedSpeed]

Here I was expecting to install the new worm gear, casing and go for a test run.
Nope the casing would not fit tight.
The clutch rod seemed to be too long.
I noticed the new worm had a ball bearing inside for the clutch rod to fit on, however i didn't remove any ball bearing.
So off comes the casing, clutch cover and plates.
Push the clutch rod and out comes two ball bearings.
All back together as expected.
The clutch works great.
Here is a picture of the old parts.
Mark