'81 XS650 Special (SH)? Electrical Query

[6fittyspecial]

Hi guys,

So I have been searching for the past few days answers and still cant quite work it out. There isnt much that someone hasnt encountered and someone else hasnt already answered out there but for the life of me I am stuck on this one.

Please bare with me. This will be long but detailed so hopefully lead to some easy answers for you guys who are more in the know...

Ok background first.

The bike is an '81 XS650 Special (5A9 - ######) so I think from my research that makes it an (SH) model.

I have pulled the complete bike down and hardtailed it, full paint and rebuild on the engine and I have removed the starter motor to go kick only.

After a long bloody time I am finally up to wiring.

My thoughts were:

Get the bike running stock first with kick only and battery. Then follow the numerous threads and how-to's and go PMA and Pamco and lose the battery and replace the whole wiring with brand new stuff.

Im getting the bike running first to eliminate anything up until now as an issue for when i head in and start doing the PMA/Pamco conversion.

So now I am currently attempting to wire up the bike using the stock harness and battery to go for a kick only start (bare bones - no lights etc.).

OK here goes the questions:

1. I have accidentally sold the ignition with the tank , i was overcome with a feeling of goodwill and I figured hey he needs a key to open the tank mayswell chuck in the ignition for him too.. didnt even think hmmm... maybe I need one later!

So I want to just bypass the key for now and I have read around and it seems connecting red to brown on the ignition plug should do the trick until i can sort a new switch. I plan to do this with a 25A fuse. But when I look for the 3 pin plug shown in the wiring diagrams and most pics I have seen, I dont have one.

I have this.

I am 99% sure that this is the ignition switch plug but I was wondering if anyone could confirm this. The extra blue wires seem to go to the pilot light, speedo and then what I assume is down to some other lights. But I dont get why when my old switch only had OFF, ON, PARK that there would be a four pin plug? any ideas? I also dont get why parts of my wiring although stock oem doesnt match the wiring diagram I have for my model bike.


Question 2: As I mentioned I want to hook up the stock harness with stock parts (minus starter motor) and get the engine running. I have worked through and reckon I have everything I need. I have grounded the coil and will ground the condensor (pic 1 and 2). But I am not sure if I need to ground the old battery basket in order to ground the rectifier... well as far as i can tell its the rectifier (pics 3/4/5). Can someone tell me if the photo is showing the rectifier and if the basket needs to be ground to the frame? And also if there are any other bits I need to ground to the frame that I missed?

coil grounded to frame.

condensor to be ground at the same spot as coil.

Rectifier attached to underside of basket (as per stock) needs a nut but thats the position.

Final Question: I bought a keyed switch to replace the ignition for later. I read around that cheap ignition switches can burn out, does that apply to something like I have bought? I only plan to splice into the power like the diagrams show so it wont act like a true ignition more like a inline isolation switch that will stop the bike being started when in the open position. I will be stopping the bike using the kill switch on the handle bars.

Thankyou for your help in advance.
Please let me know if you need more info.

 

[figure8]

I'm sure what you want to do can be done, and someone can probably walk you through it. Having said, if are going the PMA/Pamco route why not just wait till then. Do the Pamco first! Wire it up to a battery and get the timing dialed in. Then do the PMA install. Once hopefully that's all working correctly you start adding components. Headlight, tailight and so on...

 

[6fittyspecial]

Hey figure8

I considered that but I thought it might lead to more trouble. If I get it running stock then I should (technically) know that if I have a problem post PMA/Pamco install that it's to do with that and not something else I have stuffed up with the engine rebuild etc.
Should make trouble shooting much faster I am hoping

It seems like the long but safer way to me. Is your objection to it just because it will take longer or is trying to run stock without the starter motor way more complicated than what I am thinking?

 

[figure8]

Running without the starter motor won't matter, if it were me I'd be more concerned with chasing my tail trying to make a stock wire harness work. But again, that's just me. If you search the wiring diagrams on here, you'll see the simplicity of wiring a Pamco and a PMA. Like I said, it goes in simple steps.
1) Install and wire up Pamco. Time the engine.
2) Install PMA, make sure it's charging correctly.
3) Get a fuse box or inline fuses, and start adding components. As far as a key ignition. It's certainly not required, a hidden toggle switch works just the same.

 

[hmusket]

I also dont get why parts of my wiring although stock oem doesnt match the wiring diagram I have for my model bike.

I think the parts, electrical, on your bike are a combination from different years. The frame may be an '81, but the coils, rectifier, and probably the wiring harness are pre-80. Bikes '80 and after used the TCI system, dual coil, combined rectifier/regulator. Look on your wiring harness to see if there is a part number and do a search.

Also look at the front of the engine for the serial number to see if engine is '81, and if it is, then see if the head has all the right parts to use points.

 

[650Skull]

5A9-###### Australian 81SH with points ignition.

The 4 wires from the ignition plug are.
Blue/red; Headlight park light.

Blue; power to Gauge lights

Red; Power from Battery

Brown; Power to Regulator/Generator.

Black connector goes to the reed switch in the Speedo, automatically turns off the indicators.

If you change to a PMA the rectifier and regulator will be connected to a solid state Reg/Rect.

If your charging system works ok then you are spending money for nothing and the misconception the XS650 Charging system if its weak point is wrong. Most modern day PMA's are Chinese made so no guarantee they are any more reliable, and there are threads about problems arising from bad manufacturing.

You have the points shaft so a basic Pamco with the e-Advance is all you need. If you don't do the PMA there is a cheap reliable do it your self built rectifier, $10.00, and a new old car regulator for about $30.00.
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21485

 

[hmusket]

650Skull, that's interesting that the Australian model didn't have the upgrade to electronic ignition, did that occur in later model years? Different wiring diagram then?

 

[650Skull]

81 was the last Oceania model. 80SG 3W6 and 81SH 5A9 both had points and a separate regulator and rectifier

I re-loomed my Aus 3W6 80SG and used the US78SE wiring diagram and it was almost the same except for the gauges. 78SE/79SF tower has a red tail-light fail light and the neutral light is in the rev counter. 80SG has the neutral light in the tower in place of the previous tail-light fail light. The 78SEe has a light checker where the 80SG doesn't

 

[6fittyspecial]

Thanks heaps for all the feedback guys.

Yeh I definitely have points and separate rectifier and regulator.

650skull/hmusket thanks for the heads up re: wiring loom. I am away from the bike until Thursday but will check then. I bought the bike from the original owner who bought it new. They said they only ever serviced it never had any work done not even a set of rings so I just assumed the wiring, engine and frame would match. I'll track down the wiring diagram you mentioned and check the loom number and see how things match up.
Cheers for confirming the ignition switch plug too.

I forgot to mention that I have a capacitor as well and plan to go battery-less.

I already bought the PMA so despite your advice I mayswell put it in now that I have it.

Figure8 I still am worried about changing so much from stock and then having it not start and not knowing where to start trouble shooting. The stock loom worked fine when I took it apart and I have been careful with it so it should be a matter of just plugging it in, hooking up the battery and kicking it over.

Just need to know re: grounding of the stock rectifier through the basket to frame or not and I think combined with the rest of the info I should be good to go.
Thanks for confirming the switch idea should still be a goer.

I understand where you are coming from but being this is my first crack at an xs I want to make sure I got the rebuild right before I add new things

 

[pamcopete]

Just need to know re: grounding of the stock rectifier through the basket to frame or not and I think combined with the rest of the info I should be good to go.

If by "the basket" you mean the battery box, then be advised that the battery box is not grounded. It is mounted with rubber vibration isolaters.

 

[6fittyspecial]

Pamcopete

That's what I was after. I suspected that. Thanks very much.

 

[6fittyspecial]

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thanks again for all your help.

I put together all the info from all you guys and sure enough she started up 10th kick!

Now for the PAMCO install.

Cheers again guys.

 

[XSLeo]

If you want to just hear it run. Don't worry about that harness.
Mount the condenser pack somewhere close to the points. Under one of the engine mount bolts. This mount point is a ground, as with all grounds you need a bare metal to bare metal connection.
Now with the points gapped and timed, coils and advancer properly installed.
Set a battery next to the bike. Run a wire from the positive terminal to the brown wire on both coils. Hook the orange wire from coil you want running the right cylinder to the upper set of points. Wire the other coil to the lower set of points. At this point you want to hook the condensers in. Hook one of the condenser pack wires to the left coil to points wires, the other wire to the right coil.
Run a ground from the negative battery terminal to under the condenser or coil mounts.
A 10 amp fuse and a switch in the positive wire is a good idea. This is enough wiring to get the bike to run.
Leo