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83 xs650 heratige special starting problem

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Zyamahaz, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    Hey every one, got an 83 xs650 where I do and don't have spark. I spray starting fluid in carbs and nothing I use the starter and just cranks no headlight I kick and headlight on. So I think the pick up coil works but might have a problem with the ignition coil. I need some kind of direction. Going back and forth :banghead: just want to get it started
     
  2. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    When was the last time it started normally? Has the battery been charged up recently using a bench charger? Is the battery stock size, or smaller? How old is the battery? What is the battery voltage before you try to start using the starter motor?
     
  3. figure8

    figure8 XS650 Guru

    I'm a little list with your post, you do and don't have spark?
     
  4. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    The last time it started was last year. Battery was on trickle charger, stock size battery new last year 13.6 v on battery when trying to start. Disconnect battery after trying then reconnect after hours then try when reconnected add starting fluid one small spark then crank after crank
     
  5. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Z-z,
    the headlight coming on when you kick says the alternator is working but says nothing about the ignition.
    The Heritage spark runs up one plug wire and back down t'other.
    The best initial spark check is by pulling both plugs, laying them on the head with the plug caps & wires connected and pushing the starter button.
    You should see fat blue sparks on both plugs.
     
  6. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    just one spark kinda points at a pick up issue.

    Electrical 101 check grounds, fuses, fuse holders. connections everywhere.
     
  7. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    I thought pick up coil was problem how do I test it and if I do need to replace it where could I find it
     
  8. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    It consists of 2 coils. Each coil should be 700 ohms + or - 10%.
    Measure black to orange, and black to grey.
     
  9. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    I have 1 ignition coil 2 wires and if in not mistaking orange and black
     
  10. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Why are you talking about the ignition coil? You asked about the pick up coil.
     
  11. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    My mistake… yes pick up coil has three wires orange black gray
     
  12. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    OK guys,
    correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand the system the Hall effect sender on the alternator stator has two pickups triggered by a magnet on the rotor.
    The ignition control unit reads both and swaps from one to the other at ~3,000 rpm to give a two place ignition advance.
    The ICU fires the coil's two plug wires every 360º for a waste spark ignition.
    Both sparkplugs have to be in place and working before the ignition will operate correctly.
     
  13. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    The stock TCI is not a Hall effect design. You're referring to the Pamco.

    The stock TCI pick-up coils just receive an induced voltage as the magnet goes by. I don't believe the TCI electronics are as simplistic as you say. It would be a very ragged advance curve if it was just a 2 step changeover as you suggest. I would suspect the TCI has a continuous advance curve based on the rpm of the engine.
     
  14. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi RTG,
    ain't it? WTF, I thought it was, ah well. The magnetically triggered thingie, whatever it's proper name is, sends two pulses to the TCI and whether the TCI switches from one to the other at a certain RPM or whether it cleverly blends them there's only one effin' coil, eh?
    So either the coil works both plugs or neither.
     
  15. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    17,316
    6,694
    688
    Yes, a single coil with two plug wires fires both or neither. It's not possible for it to fire just one. The two plug wires aren't separated inside the coil. They both get the "fire" signal. Basically, it's a "Y" connection, both plug wires getting the signal. If only one cylinder is sparking, the first thing to check would be that cylinder's plug wire, plug cap, or the spark plug itself.
     
  16. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    So I ohmd out the pick up coil from orange to black I got 780 from grey to black I got 784 +\- but still over 700 ohms so what does that mean and what would be the next step? Thanks
     
  17. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Those readings are close enough to be in spec., so no problem there.

    If you want to own an old bike, you need to have a manual such as the Haynes. That manual tells you step by step how to trouble shoot the TCI. Haynes manual page 150.

    Your next step would be to measure the resistance of the ignition coil.
    Primary: 2.5 ohms + or - 15%
    Secondary: 11K ohms + or - 20%
     
  18. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    The primary and secondary are what? And I getting a manual
     
  19. Zyamahaz

    Zyamahaz XS650 Enthusiast

    Primary is 2.63 and secondary is 29.03 ...does that sound right
    Ohm meter from r/w to orange is primary , and plug to plug is secondary
     
  20. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    For the secondary, do you mean 29K ohms?? The coil itself would be about 11K, and new resistance caps would add 10K more, so that would be around 21K ohms.

    Good info here from 5twins:
    http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32953
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016

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