A struggle setting points.

[Tiesco]

Hello yall. I've been struggling set the points(as the title implies). My deal is I am able to get the right point to open at the correct time in the "full retard" position but the left wants to open way at the full advance mark. This is my first experience with points. Could it be that the breaker cam is worn?

 

[Jim]

Watch this.

 

[Tiesco]

I have done it the way he instructs except with an ohmmeter. I have adjusted the left point bracket all the way but the ohmmeter reads O.L. on that point unless I turn the crank near the full advance mark.

 

[Tiesco]

Except for the cam chain adjustment actually. I'll doubt check that tomorrow...

 

[arcticXS]

Did you set the points cap to spec before trying to set timing?
Are the points old or new?
OEM or aftermarket?
Is the fiber "heel" on the RH points intact? (The part that touches the cam)

Generally, if one set of points can be timed correctly, it is very unlikely that a worn cam is the culprit. After all, it is the same cam profile opening both sets of points.

 

[5twins]

If the points are old and worn, it may be very hard or even impossible to set them to spec. If they came with the bike and you don't know their history (how old they are), it would be best to replace them and start fresh with new ones.

As points wear, they develop pits on the faces. The spark jumps between these pits. You can't measure that with a feeler gauge. The gap you measure and set actually ends up being bigger. So, if the points are used, it's best you set their gap near, at, or even slightly below the minimum of the spec (.012"). The fact that your left set of points is firing so early (near the full advance mark) is a good indication that their gap is too big.

 

[Tiesco]

I have set the points gap to .013 on both

 

[5twins]

But if the points are old and pitted, the gap is actually bigger than that. You may have to set it even smaller to get the timing right on that left cylinder.
The best and really only way to set used points accurately is to use a dwell meter. This measures the points gap electronically.

 

[Tiesco]

I checked the gap again and it was set way to big so I set them both again to .012 and I was able to time them both and they're both in the money.
Now i do not have spark and the starter relay doesn't appear to be clicking. I dont know what worked before I got this bike so I'm gonna just see where I'm getting power.

 

[XSLeo]

Once upon a time when I got my first XS650, it was a 75 I got it with a blown engine in 78, Once rebuilt and going I could adjust the right set in just a minute or so then it would take hours to get the left set.
I thought perhaps wear on the breaker plates was the issue. I went to talk to the dealer about it. He said he could get new breakers plates for around $250. He said he could sell me an electronic ignition that would replace the points for $100. I got the Electronic ignition kit. I don't even recall the brand name now. It had a plate that bolted in place of the breaker plates. A replacement part for the cam lobe and a part that went on the part that replaced the cam lobe. This piece triggered something on the plate to cause the spark.
From what I know now I assume there was a magnet on the one part and a hall effect transistor on the plate.. There was a black box. You used the stock coils.
Easy to set the timing.
When I bought the 75 I have now I tried several ways to make setting the point easier. I finally bought a basic Pamco ignition,
This worked like the one I used on my first 75 but was al on the breaker plate, no black box.
It's too bad Pamco stopped making them. So I can't recommend one. Others are building good ignitions for these bikes. My recommendation is to get one. Set the points on a shelf.
You'll get a better running engine an not have to spend good riding time adjusting points.
Leo

 

[Tiesco]

Ok now I have spark in accessories but not in run.

 

[5twins]

Sounds like you have some wiring issues, lol. You usually have to go through all the wiring when you get one of these and correct or fix any bad spots, and there usually are a few. These bikes vibrate quite a bit so it's not uncommon to find several wires rubbed bare and intermittently shorting. The usual areas of concern are around the battery box and in the headlight shell.

 

[Tiesco]

So here's an update. I have been shell shocked by the loudest backfires I've ever heard. Doesnt seem to wanna go. It just backfires from time to time.

 

[Tiesco]

And the whole starting circuit problem has magically gone away. The intermittent open will have to be dealt with later

 

[Tiesco]

I tried switching the two wires from the points around just as an experiment and that changed things up. It fires about 3 times then stops for a few rotations then maybe 3 or 2 times again.

 

[arcticXS]

You need to take a more systematic approach. Back to first principles. Figure out your wiring issues, including which set of points goes to which coil. Are your capacitors ("condensers"?) Ok and have good connection to ground? Do you have any significant voltage drop from coil negative to ground, with points closed and capacitors disconnected (or isolated from ground)?
More than likely, your coils are not receiving full battery voltage, due to resistance/voltage drop in ignition switch, kill switch, and all associated connectors. Basically, almost all resistance/ voltage drop from battery to ground in the ignition system should be in the coil primary winding. As little as possible in wiring, switches, connevtors and the points themselves.
And how is your battery voltage? A healthy, fully charged lead acid battery should show 12.6 volts when measured with a digital multimeter. 12.0 is a dead battery.

 

[Tiesco]

My battery is hooked up to a jump pack to avoid draining it while I am testing the circuits and turning the engine over. The ignition switch is new and the right handlebar switch is also new. Other than that everything else is bone stock and original as far as I know. Out of curiosity, I measured the resistance of both wires and they both measured 8.75 Kohms. I know that plug wires are supposed to have some resistance so I left those alone since they were measuring the same. I am unaware of how to determine the condition of the condenser. I have not voltage dropped the coils.

All I do know is that I'm getting spark on both plugs. I also had to flip the points cam around and then I switched the wires from the points back to their designated coils. It seemed to help a bit but I should go back and look over the timing I think. This could very well be a carb issue as well.

 

[arcticXS]

OK, it seems low voltage to the coils should not be an issue. But I have been burnt a few times, assuming that new automatically means good. That is not always the case, either it is electrical or mechanical parts.
Disconnect both sides of your coils, measure between terminals. Should be around 4 ohms. From HT wire to ground should be 10 kOhms IIRC.
5 kOhm spark plug caps is OK, or 5kOhm plugs (resistor plugs) but not both!
Do verify the voltage at the coil + terminal, when the points for that side is closed, i.e the coil is drawing approx. 3 A current. The voltage should be very close to battery terminal voltage. A 10 second check.
Then, verify the current path from coil - terminal to ground. Disconnect capacitors. Connect the negative probe to engine ground (head cooling fin), and positive probe to coil - terminal. Ignition on, points closed. Ideally you should see zero volts, but up to 0,5 to 1 volt may be acceptable.
Then repeat this procedure on the other coil, with the other set of points closed.
I